[RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

Sat Feb 17 11:27:17 PST 2024

Chris;

I was definitely moving to the LFP camp for off grid for all the same 
reasons you mentioned, but I've just had too much trouble, so I'm 
heading back to lead acid for now.  I missed the acid burned jeans, its 
a "look".....

Seriously, you mentioned customers coming back to a lead acid battery at 
16 v; how about a $12k LFP bank doing the same thing? At least lead acid 
can be recovered to some extent.  I'm not married to either platform, I 
just want to spend my customers' money on the most reliable solution, 
and after having both temperature related issues, and failed BMS, lead 
acid is back. Maybe when my current lead acid installations need to be 
replaced, LFP will have solved 2 very important issues:
1) More Robust BMS boards that can be field replaced.
2) On board heating system for below freezing conditions.

I think we're close, but definitely not there.

Also, with all the mention of various UL listings, regulation needs to 
evolve to differentiate between LiFePO4 and other Li+ chemistries.  
LiFePO4 is inherently much safer, but we're being forced to comply with 
all the same regulations as the less stable, more energy dense chemistries.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 2/16/2024 8:44 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote:
> Howie,
>
> The EG4 18K and the Fortress Envy are both made by the same 
> manufacturer, LuxPower. Google the LXP 12K and it will all make 
> sense.  I can’t speak for EG4, but I know that Fortress has progressed 
> from simply white labeling this unit to doing a significant amount of 
> programming and additional integration, specifically with regards to 
> their monitoring platform.
>
> Personally, I have always had a skeptical approach with EG4. The EX 
> line was chintzy at best. Every prospective client I have crossed 
> paths with that has called out EG4 equipment thinks they know more and 
> want it cheaper because they watched a few YouTube videos where 
> unqualified DIY hacks free air conductors. I don’t want to write EG4 
> off completely, and am interested in their PowerPro battery. But with 
> the ebb and flow of battery manufacturers, I wouldn’t be surprised if 
> they weren’t around in 5 years. I feel differently about Fortress 
> Power and although they have been a little overactive in the inverter 
> market, I do believe that they are well intentioned and that their 
> products and business are solid.
>
> There has been some recent LFP bashing, and respectfully, I will agree 
> to disagree. Early iterations of LFP had frequent issues with BMS and 
> cell failure, but all in all, LFP has been a shining star in off-grid 
> applications. I say this having installed 100+ eVault Max 18.5 in 
> strictly off-grid scenarios. Sure there are phone calls and necessary 
> firmware updates (however never a single BMS failure with the eVault 
> Max), but I’m not having the heartbreaking conversations of “when we 
> came back from vacation our 48v lead acid battery bank was at 15 
> volts”. I don’t like those phone calls. I also don't like holes in my 
> pants and shirts or calls that CO monitors are alarming because of 
> dead vent fans. I’m not dying on the hill of LFP, but I will say that 
> I am firmly in support of the measurable improvements they have made 
> for my customers. Paired with remote monitoring, the truck rolls a lot 
> less.
>
> Kindly,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 4:33 PM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches 
> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>     The issue I'm having with EG4 specifically and Signature Solar in
>     general is a scattershot approach to UL and NRTL listings. Those
>     listings may not be important to various DIY folks of
>     varying levels of "git-er-done," but listings are critical for
>     my business. Some products they sell are Listed per NEC, some are
>     not, and some EG4 are listed, some are not. I recently contacted
>     Signature Solar regarding their EG4 rack mount ESS modules and did
>     not receive a satisfactory response, unfortunately a new off-grid
>     client had already purchased an entire rack of them before
>     consulting with me. Our county AHJ is very strict. I can't risk
>     recommending or installing a system that would fail inspection.
>     Here in Colorado they often even cross check the altitude ratings
>     on all inverters. (sorry Schneider XW-Pro that I like so much,
>     limit on your spec sheet is 2000m altitude)
>
>     Signature Solar provided the usual NRTL stamp for UL 1741SA etc
>     etc on the EG4 rack batteries, then also a UL 9540A testing
>     certificate that they said should be sufficient, and it disturbed
>     me that they did not seem to understand that UL 9540A is NOT a
>     listing - it's a fire-resistance test that an ESS manufacturer can
>     use as a document to help obtain their actual UL9540 listing, and
>     also gain exemptions to spacing and other requirements....but from
>     my understanding it's NOT an actual UL or NRTL listing to UL 9540.
>     When I inquired about that, Signature Solar stopped communicating
>     with me.
>
>     I'm pretty sure my understanding of UL 9540 listing vs. 9540A
>     testing is correct, but I would appreciate any input before again
>     gently confronting both AHJs and manufacturers.
>
>     Dan Fink
>     Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
>     IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
>     NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
>     NABCEP PV Associate
>     d <mailto:dan.fink at greendustrialtraining.com>anbob88 at gmail.com
>     970-672-4342
>
>
>
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