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<p>Chris;</p>
<p>I was definitely moving to the LFP camp for off grid for all the
same reasons you mentioned, but I've just had too much trouble, so
I'm heading back to lead acid for now. I missed the acid burned
jeans, its a "look"..... <br>
</p>
<p>Seriously, you mentioned customers coming back to a lead acid
battery at 16 v; how about a $12k LFP bank doing the same thing?
At least lead acid can be recovered to some extent. I'm not
married to either platform, I just want to spend my customers'
money on the most reliable solution, and after having both
temperature related issues, and failed BMS, lead acid is back.
Maybe when my current lead acid installations need to be replaced,
LFP will have solved 2 very important issues:<br>
1) More Robust BMS boards that can be field replaced.<br>
2) On board heating system for below freezing conditions. </p>
<p>I think we're close, but definitely not there. <br>
</p>
<p>Also, with all the mention of various UL listings, regulation
needs to evolve to differentiate between LiFePO4 and other Li+
chemistries. LiFePO4 is inherently much safer, but we're being
forced to comply with all the same regulations as the less stable,
more energy dense chemistries. <br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/16/2024 8:44 PM, Chris Sparadeo
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAdbmLZHHZ58h9P5xnXvG60EBKOeMu=RaDKwv_zOdYY-XQpAww@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">Howie,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">The EG4 18K and the Fortress Envy are both made by
the same manufacturer, LuxPower. Google the LXP 12K and it will
all make sense. I can’t speak for EG4, but I know that Fortress
has progressed from simply white labeling this unit to doing a
significant amount of programming and additional integration,
specifically with regards to their monitoring platform. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Personally, I have always had a skeptical approach
with EG4. The EX line was chintzy at best. Every prospective
client I have crossed paths with that has called out EG4
equipment thinks they know more and want it cheaper because they
watched a few YouTube videos where unqualified DIY hacks free
air conductors. I don’t want to write EG4 off completely, and am
interested in their PowerPro battery. But with the ebb and flow
of battery manufacturers, I wouldn’t be surprised if they
weren’t around in 5 years. I feel differently about Fortress
Power and although they have been a little overactive in the
inverter market, I do believe that they are well intentioned and
that their products and business are solid. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">There has been some recent LFP bashing, and
respectfully, I will agree to disagree. Early iterations of LFP
had frequent issues with BMS and cell failure, but all in all,
LFP has been a shining star in off-grid applications. I say this
having installed 100+ eVault Max 18.5 in strictly off-grid
scenarios. Sure there are phone calls and necessary firmware
updates (however never a single BMS failure with the eVault
Max), but I’m not having the heartbreaking conversations of
“when we came back from vacation our 48v lead acid battery bank
was at 15 volts”. I don’t like those phone calls. I also don't
like holes in my pants and shirts or calls that CO monitors are
alarming because of dead vent fans. I’m not dying on the hill of
LFP, but I will say that I am firmly in support of the
measurable improvements they have made for my customers. Paired
with remote monitoring, the truck rolls a lot less. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">Kindly,</div>
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</div>
<div dir="auto">Chris </div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at
4:33 PM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">The issue I'm having with EG4 specifically
and Signature Solar in general is a scattershot approach
to UL and NRTL listings. Those listings may not be
important to various DIY folks of varying levels of
"git-er-done," but listings are critical for
my business. Some products they sell are Listed per NEC,
some are not, and some EG4 are listed, some are not. I
recently contacted Signature Solar regarding their EG4
rack mount ESS modules and did not receive a
satisfactory response, unfortunately a new off-grid
client had already purchased an entire rack of them
before consulting with me. Our county AHJ is very
strict. I can't risk recommending or installing a system
that would fail inspection. Here in Colorado they often
even cross check the altitude ratings on all inverters.
(sorry Schneider XW-Pro that I like so much, limit on
your spec sheet is 2000m altitude)</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Signature Solar provided the usual NRTL
stamp for UL 1741SA etc etc on the EG4 rack batteries,
then also a UL 9540A testing certificate that they said
should be sufficient, and it disturbed me that they did
not seem to understand that UL 9540A is NOT a listing -
it's a fire-resistance test that an ESS manufacturer can
use as a document to help obtain their actual UL9540
listing, and also gain exemptions to spacing and other
requirements....but from my understanding it's NOT an
actual UL or NRTL listing to UL 9540. When I inquired
about that, Signature Solar stopped communicating with
me.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I'm pretty sure my understanding of UL 9540
listing vs. 9540A testing is correct, but I would
appreciate any input before again gently confronting
both AHJs and manufacturers. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="all">
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