[RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island
August Goers
august at luminalt.com
Fri Jul 21 11:39:18 PDT 2017
All,
I thought I'd provide an update on our setup since we've completed the
install and commissioning. More or less, the installation went well. We did
have one of the US Battery AGM L16 batteries dead on arrival with a bad
cell. That bad battery screwed up the state of charge (SOC) calculations in
the Sunny Island and made the SOC reading jump from ~ 80% to 19% in just a
couple of minutes. It was easy to find the bad battery - all the batteries
were about 6.5 v with the bad battery reading about 4.5 v. We pulled that
battery out of the string for warranty replacement and are currently
running it with seven batteries at 42 v nominal. It's cool that the Sunny
Island allows for this. Other than that, the frequency shift derate between
the Sunny Island and Sunny Boy is working perfectly and the system has more
than enough capacity to run the loads during the summer months. I'd say the
Kohler generator is the nice unit although it is a little loud for this
application. If I had to do this portable application again, I'd probably
just go with the Honda 7000.
Thanks for your help! August
[image: Inline image 1][image: Inline image 2]
*August Goers*
Luminalt Energy Corporation
o: 415.641.4000
m: 415.559.1525
www.luminalt.com
On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 2:05 PM, August Goers <august at luminalt.com> wrote:
> The 14RESA unit we have has an integrated battery charger. We just need to
> wire a 15 A circuit from our backup panel to the terminals to keep the
> starter battery charged. I confirmed that the warranty is 18 months or 1000
> hours of operation for offgrid use.
>
> August
>
> *August Goers*
>
> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>
> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
>
> m: 415.559.1525 <(415)%20559-1525>
>
> www.luminalt.com
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Dana <dana at solarwork.com> wrote:
>
>> This gen has a significant phantom load, & there is no way to avoid it.
>> I have installed several & had to provide either a 10 watt PV module or a
>> 120-12 volt battery maintainer.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------------
>> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc.
>> 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com
>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz
>> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
>> Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 8:36 AM
>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island
>>
>> I remember most having to run a small soar panel to keep the start
>> battery from draining. I too hope that is fixed. It looked to me that the
>> offgrid warranty is 1/2 of grid-tie. --Dave
>> > What is the standby current draw on this unit. In the past, that has
>> > been an issue with Kohler.
>> >
>> > At 06:01 PM 7/10/2017, you wrote:
>> >>All - update for those of you interested, we are starting the portal
>> >>installation tomorrow (with a Sunny Island for better or worse) and
>> >>ended up going with a Kohler 14RESA propane generator.
>> >>This should be 2-wire start, ok at 100% duty cycle 120 v, and CARB
>> >>compliant. If all goes as planned we'll be up and running next week
>> >>and I'll keep you posted.
>> >>
>> >><http://www.kohlergenerators.com/home-generators/products/14RESA>http:
>> >>//www.kohlergenerators.com/home-generators/products/14RESA
>> >>
>> >>-August
>> >>
>> >>August Goers
>> >>
>> >>Luminalt Energy Corporation
>> >>
>> >>o: 415.641.4000
>> >>
>> >>m: 415.559.1525
>> >>
>> >><http://www.luminalt.com>www.luminalt.com
>> >>
>> >>Â
>> >>
>> >>On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> >><<mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net>offgridsolar at sti.net> wrote:
>> >>I did a few projects for Yosemite. Then I used the EU6500i which is
>> >>now the EU7000i. Never had anyone ask. and that you will find is the
>> issue.
>> >> In
>> >>my county of Mariposa they will issue a certificate of occupancy on a
>> >>house running a generator for final approval. Pretty lax about it all.
>> >>If I go across the county line into Tuolumne everything is hard to do.
>> >>Geeze an offgrid generator...Use Honda or design so that you don't
>> >>need one :)
>> >>
>> >>Dave Angelini / Offgrid Solar
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Hi Gary and All â€â€œ
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > We looked into the EcoGen unit, but the 6kW is discontinued and the
>> >> 15kW
>> >> > EcoGen is not rated to be sold in California. Bummer.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Speaking of California, do any of you know about the CARB
>> >> > compliance issues on selecting a generator for an offgrid renewable
>> >> > project? We had one generator rep tell us that only a Tier 4F CARB
>> >> > generators are legal
>> >> for
>> >> > use
>> >> > with offgrid in California, but I can’t ¢t
>> >> find anything online to clarify.
>> >> > Since this project is in the National Parks, we need to make sure
>> >> > we don̢۪t
>> >> > > have any compliance issues. If anyone knows anything about what
>> >> > > kind
>> >> of
>> >> > CARB compliance is or isn̢۪t required, I, I̢۪d love to hear
>> >> > about
>> >> it.
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > August
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > *From:* RE-wrenches
>> >> > [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]
>> >> *On
>> >> > Behalf Of *Gary Willett
>> >> > *Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 7:58 AM
>> >> > *To:*
>> >> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches at lists.re-wrench
>> >> es.org
>> >> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > AUGUST:
>> >> >
>> >> > The Generac EcoGen is dual-fuel capable (NG or LP), comes in 6kW
>> >> > and
>> >> 15kW
>> >> > versions, is 2-wire start, can be field-configured for either 120V
>> >> > or 240V.
>> >> > It's not "portable" as it does not have wheels. It's transportable
>> >> though
>> >> > based on its footprint and weight. Also, it was specifically
>> >> > designed
>> >> and
>> >> > warranteed for off-grid applications.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >
>> >> > Gary Willett PE
>> >> > Icarus Engineering LLC
>> >> >
>> >> > On 6/16/17 9:36 AM, Kevin Pegg wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > You could use a 2 -> 3 wire converter such as the Atkinson GSCM
>> >> > module that will take the 2 wire output from the SI and convert to
>> >> > 3-wire to
>> >> control a
>> >> > gasoline generator such as the Honda EU7000 series, or Cummins/Onan
>> >> makes
>> >> > a
>> >> > good line of gasoline generators. It may be very hard to find a gas
>> >> > generator that has 2 wire native remote start. That is more common
>> >> with
>> >> > larger propane or diesel generators.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Kevin
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > *From:* RE-wrenches
>> >> [mailto:<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches
>> >> -bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> >> >
>> >> <<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches-bounce
>> >> s at lists.re-wrenches.org>]
>> >> *On Behalf Of *August Goers
>> >> > *Sent:* June-16-17 7:22 AM
>> >> > *To:* RE-wrenches
>> >> <<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenc
>> >> hes.org>
>> >> >
>> >> <<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenc
>> >> hes.org>
>> >> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks for the good feedback folks!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > We are using a Sunny Island setup because we had access to a free
>> >> Sunny
>> >> > Island and Sunny Boy being scrapped from another site. Otherwise I
>> >> > was definitely planning on going with a Outback DC coupled system.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I think the trick here is trying to find a portable generator that
>> >> > has
>> >> a
>> >> > two-wire start option. I̢۪m looking
>> >> throurough the usual genny suppliers and
>> >> > nothing has presented itself so far. Anyway,
>> >> I’™ll keep looking and will
>> >> > check out Chris̢۪ suggestion on the nexus
>> >> controtroller and Generac propane
>> >> > unit as well.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > FYI, here is a link to what the portal is
>> >> like. Itâ€ââ„¢s going in National
>> >> > Park
>> >> > land by the Golden Gate Bridge so I hope we can pull it together!
>> >> > <http://www.sharedstudios.com/>http://www.sharedstudios.com/
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > August
>> >> >
>> >> > Luminalt
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > *From:* RE-wrenches
>> >> > [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]
>> >> *On
>> >> > Behalf Of *Chris Mason
>> >> > *Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2017 4:56 AM
>> >> > *To:* RE-wrenches
>> >> <<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenc
>> >> hes.org>
>> >> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > To my limited mind, the whole 120V sunny island setup is a disaster.
>> >> Why
>> >> > not install a DC coupled 8KW Outback Radian and solve all your
>> >> problems.
>> >> > USe any 240V generator, although finding a 2 wire start gasoline
>> >> > unit
>> >> may
>> >> > be hard. I would use a Nexus controller generac propane generator
>> >> > with propane tank, all mounted on the container. I would never
>> >> > design
>> >> anything
>> >> > to use gasoline, it's too dangerous.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Matthew
>> >> Sirum <<mailto:matthewsirum at gmail.com>matthewsirum at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Greetings August,
>> >> >
>> >> > Great thoughts and comments from Brian! I would also suggest
>> >> speaking
>> >> > with the generator manufacturers' tech/engineering folks regarding
>> >> > the 120VAC configuration and to confirm 2-wire start set up once
>> >> > you have a brand and model or two in mind. Generator parts and
>> >> > service availability in the region of the project may also drive
>> >> > brand selection. If you need to maximize the inverter's battery
>> >> > charging capabilities (depending on battery system charging
>> >> > requirements) you may end up needing to look at generators in the
>> >> > 7.5 kW to 8.0 kW capacity range to allow for headroom in generator
>> output loading.
>> >> >
>> >> > Also; I am curious how you arrived at an AC coupled design for this
>> >> > project. I do not know any of the details or specific projects
>> >> > goals you are working with, but I would potentially consider a DC
>> >> > coupled system design... DC/DC charge controller(s) would keep
>> >> > the battery system charged (and any DC loads operable) even if the
>> >> > Sunny Island and/or Sunny Boy(s) have a failure or is taken
>> >> > offline. If most of the AC loads are 120VAC I would consider
>> >> > keeping the inverter AC output circuit 120VAC and install a
>> >> > dedicated transformer solely for the 240VAC load.... Or perhaps
>> consider a 120/240VAC inverter model.
>> >> > Depending on the overall situation a DC coupled system could be
>> >> > more resilient. The dedicated transformer for the 240VAC load
>> >> > could also potentially help make the system more robust. Also; I
>> >> > have spoken with a number of folks who have told me they wish the
>> >> > Sunny Island had more/better features for generator integration.Â
>> >> > I'd like to hear
>> >> more
>> >> > from those who have plenty of experience designing and installing
>> >> > systems with Sunny Islands and generators to learn what the current
>> >> > thoughts and issues are.
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope some of these thoughts may be helpful.
>> >> >
>> >> > Best regards,
>> >> >
>> >> > ----MATT
>> >> >
>> >> > Matthew Sirum
>> >> > P.O. Box 1227
>> >> > Greenfield, MA 01302-1227Â USA
>> >> > phone: +1.413.773.0611 <(413)%20773-0611>
>> >> > email: <mailto:MatthewSirum at gmail.com>MatthewSirum at gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --------Â Original Message Below --------
>> >> >
>> >> > [RE-wrenches] Generator choice for Sunny Island August Goers august
>> >> > at <http://luminalt.com>luminalt.com Thu Jun 15 09:02:41 PDT 2017
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Wrenches, especially those of you who work on off-grid projects,
>> >> >
>> >> > We have an upcoming off-grid project where we will be powering a
>> >> storage
>> >> > container with electronics in it. The loads are mostly 120 volt but
>> >> there
>> >> > is a 240 volt heat pump that might occasionally run. We̢۪re AC
>> >> coupling
>> >> > > the
>> >> > Sunny Island with a Sunny Boy PV inverter. So, weâ€â„„¢ll be
>> >> installing a
>> >> > Outback PSX-240 autoformer to bump the Sunny
>> >> Islandâ€ââ„¢s output from 120 to
>> >> > 240 volt.
>> >> >
>> >> > We need to select a generator for backup. We need a two-wire
>> >> > electric start (in order to be controlled by the Sunny Island) and
>> >> > preferably a
>> >> generator
>> >> > that is okay just running 120 volt loads since the Sunny Islands
>> >> > input
>> >> is
>> >> > only 120 volt. Something in the 3 kVA -7 kVA range should be fine.
>> >> >
>> >> > Does anyone have experience or ideas about what kind of two-wire
>> >> > start generator we might select?
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> > August
>> >> >
>> >> > Luminalt
>> >> > _______________________________________________
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>> >> > --
>> >> >
>> >> > Chris Mason
>> >> >
>> >> > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installerâ„¢
>> >> >
>> >> > Solar Design Engineer
>> >> >
>> >> > Generac Generators Industrial technician
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
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>> >>
>> >>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> >>"we go where powerlines don't"
>> >><http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>http://members.sti.net/offgridso
>> >>lar/ e-mail <mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net>offgridsolar at sti.net
>> >>text <tel:209%20813%200060>209 813 0060
>> >>
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