[RE-wrenches] Sunny Island no Longer Supports TLs - How about New Series?

Dan Fink danbob88 at gmail.com
Sun Mar 26 08:22:02 PDT 2017


Hello Ray -- Can you elaborate on why these battery-based projects are
getting killed here locally? Is it the misinterpretation by AHJs that
690.12 has to disconnect the inverter from the battery bank with giant
shunt-trip breakers? If that were the case...backup generators would have
to be controlled by rapid shutdown too, and I don't think that can of worms
has been opened yet.

Dan Fink
Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Ray <ray at solarray.com> wrote:

> Not to muddy the waters, but how does the SMA system deal with 690.12
> Rapid Shutdown requirements in OG and GTB arrangements?  690.12 has been
> killing battery based projects left and right here in Colorado.
>
> Thanks,
>
> R. Ray Walters
> Chief Technical Officer, RemoteSolar.com
> BS Mech Engineering, 1988
> Former NABCEP Certified, 2004-2016
> Licensed Master ELectrician, Colorado303 505-8760 <(303)%20505-8760>
>
> On 3/25/17 6:46 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote:
>
> Hi Howie,
>
> So Jay found this from previous posts (below).  So apparently the -40
> series will work in Off-grid mode (as long as you program the SBs
> separately to be in OG) but won't do the switching of modes necessary for
> grid-tie backup.  I plan on a call to SMA tech support Monday morning to
> get to the bottom of what exactly is lost without the RS485 comm.  And to
> see if TLs are still going to work as the new SIs tech sheet shows they are
> not supported.  why I have no idea but I intend to find out.
>
> hope that helps.
>
> Best,
>
> Jeff
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *Drake <drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>
> *Subject: **Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA US 40 & AC coupling*
> *Date: *March 13, 2017 at 10:23:56 AM PDT
> *To: *RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Reply-To: *RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> I talked with Tim at SMA today, and the new  Sunny Boy inverters will
> provide taper charging with the Sunny Islands even though no RS 485
> communication is available. The Sunny Boys need to be programmed in the off
> grid mode, and the Sunny Islands will take care of the UL 1741 requirements.
>
>
> The graph below shows the relation between frequency shift and % power
> produced by the Sunny Boy inverters.
> [image: Emacs!]
>
> Drake Chamberlin
>
>
>
>
>
> *Athens Electric LLC OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP Certified
> Solar PV  740-448-7328 <(740)%20448-7328> *http://athens-electric.com/
> At 11:36 AM 3/10/2017, you wrote:
> I just checked with SMA and they do not have an RS485 card for the -40
> inverters. What this means is that you can set them up to be permanently in
> off grid mode where the SB will follow the frequency shift of the SI, ok
> for an off grid system. But for grid tie with backup, the SB will not
> communicate with the SI and will not change the SB to off grid mode. It
> will still work like other generic AC coupled systems where the frequency
> shift will cause the SB inverter to drop off line, but as far as I know no
> throttling back will happen.
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> Howie Michaelson wrote:
>
> I'm confused. Does this mean the -40 series are not compatible with SI off
> grid mode? Or they don't adjust output due to frequency shift? Or?
>
> Howie
> Howie Michaelson
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
>
> Sun Catcher
> Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
> VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
> 802-272-0004 <(802)%20272-0004>
>
> On Mar 25, 2017 7:59 PM, "Tump" <tump at swnl.net> wrote:
>
>> Jeff the bad news is yer outa luck BUT they "had a work around" that was
>> discussed on the list a few weeks ago. I looked quickly but didn’t see it
>> posted. You were going to install a RS 485 card/ module that had the soft
>> ware to make it work. I found this out just as these “Newest latest n
>> greatest inverters" were just coming out, looked at the manual, and much to
>> my disappointment I had to send it back and educate my salesperson to this.
>> Lucky for me I was able to get the TL series. Ill keep on looking, if you
>> don’t have any luck I do have a contact at SMA…. at least he was there 2
>> weeks ago, contact me off list. Tump
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2017, at 12:10 PM, Jeff Clearwater <
>> jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>> Can anyone confirm for me that the SUNNY BOY 3.0-US / 3.8-US / 5.0-US /
>> 6.0-US / 7.0-US / 7.7-US series is or is not supported by the Sunny
>> Island in off-grid AC coupling mode?  The technical paper on the subject
>> here http://files.sma.de/dl/7910/SB-OffGrid-TI-US-en-18.pdf   does not
>> list them but I'm hoping it's cause that paper is dated Feb '16.
>>
>> I sure hope they are because that paper shows they discontinued support
>> the the  SUNNY BOY 3000TL-US / 3800TL-US / 4000TL-US / 5000TL-US /
>> 6000TL-US / 7000TL-US / 7700TL-US series!  Why!??
>>
>> Hope you have good news for me!
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Clearwater
>> Village Power Design
>> Renewable Energy Design & Installation
>> Ecovillage Design Consultant
>>
>> Licensed Solar Contractor in CA - C-46
>> www.villagepowerdesign.com <http://www.villagepower.com/>
>> 413-559-9763 <%28413%29%20559-9763>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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> --
> Jeff Clearwater
> Village Power Design
> Renewable Energy Design & Installation
> Ecovillage Design Consultant
>
> NABCEP™ Certified Solar PV Installer
> Licensed Solar Contractor in CA - C-46
> www.villagepowerdesign.com <http://www.villagepower.com>
> 413-559-9763 <(413)%20559-9763>
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