<div dir="ltr">Hello Ray -- Can you elaborate on why these battery-based projects are getting killed here locally? Is it the misinterpretation by AHJs that 690.12 has to disconnect the inverter from the battery bank with giant shunt-trip breakers? If that were the case...backup generators would have to be controlled by rapid shutdown too, and I don't think that can of worms has been opened yet.<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Dan Fink</span><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">IREC Certified Instructor™ for: </div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~ PV Installation Professional</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~ Small Wind Installer</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Executive Director, Buckville Energy</div><div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™<br><a href="tel:970.672.4342" value="+19706724342" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">970.672.4342</a></div><br> </div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Ray <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" target="_blank">ray@solarray.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Not to muddy the waters, but how does the SMA system deal with
690.12 Rapid Shutdown requirements in OG and GTB arrangements?
690.12 has been killing battery based projects left and right here
in Colorado.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br>
</p>
<pre class="m_-5278478088777178352moz-signature" cols="72">R. Ray Walters
Chief Technical Officer, RemoteSolar.com
BS Mech Engineering, 1988
Former NABCEP Certified, 2004-2016
Licensed Master ELectrician, Colorado
<a href="tel:(303)%20505-8760" value="+13035058760" target="_blank">303 505-8760</a></pre><div><div class="h5">
<div class="m_-5278478088777178352moz-cite-prefix">On 3/25/17 6:46 PM, Jeff Clearwater
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><span>Hi
Howie,<br>
<br>
So Jay found this from previous posts (below). So apparently
the -40 series will work in Off-grid mode (as long as you
program the SBs separately to be in OG) but won't do the
switching of modes necessary for grid-tie backup. I plan on a
call to SMA tech support Monday morning to get to the bottom
of what exactly is lost without the RS485 comm. And to see if
TLs are still going to work as the new SIs tech sheet shows
they are not supported. why I have no idea but I intend to
find out.<br>
<br>
hope that helps.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="m_-5278478088777178352Apple-interchange-newline">
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0)"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif">Drake <<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org" target="_blank">drake.chamberlin@<wbr>redwoodalliance.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0)"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif"><b>Re:
[RE-wrenches] SMA US 40 & AC coupling</b><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0)"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif">March 13, 2017 at
10:23:56 AM PDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0)"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif">RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-<wbr>wrenches.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0)"><b>Reply-To: </b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif">RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-<wbr>wrenches.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">I talked with Tim at SMA
today, and the new Sunny Boy inverters will provide
taper charging with the Sunny Islands even though no RS
485 communication is available. The Sunny Boys need to be
programmed in the off grid mode, and the Sunny Islands
will take care of the UL 1741 requirements.<span class="m_-5278478088777178352Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">The graph below shows the
relation between frequency shift and % power produced by
the Sunny Boy inverters.<span class="m_-5278478088777178352Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<img alt="Emacs!" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" id="m_-5278478088777178352C98CA293-90AE-4981-A424-3D98EA3A5CE4" src="cid:part4.855BE1FF.DA33A146@solarray.com"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important"><span class="m_-5278478088777178352Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Drake Chamberlin</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<i style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Athens Electric
LLC<br>
OH License 44810<br>
CO License 3773<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV<span class="m_-5278478088777178352Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<a href="tel:(740)%20448-7328" value="+17404487328" target="_blank">740-448-7328</a><br>
</i><a href="http://athens-electric.com/" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">http://athens-electric.com/</a><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important"><span class="m_-5278478088777178352Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">At 11:36 AM 3/10/2017, you
wrote:</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
I just checked with SMA and they do not have an RS485 card
for the -40 inverters. What this means is that you can set
them up to be permanently in off grid mode where the SB will
follow the frequency shift of the SI, ok for an off grid
system. But for grid tie with backup, the SB will not
communicate with the SI and will not change the SB to off
grid mode. It will still work like other generic AC coupled
systems where the frequency shift will cause the SB inverter
to drop off line, but as far as I know no throttling back
will happen.<br>
<br>
Brad<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
Howie Michaelson wrote:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">I'm confused. Does this mean the -40 series
are not compatible with SI off grid mode? Or they don't
adjust output due to frequency shift? Or?
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">Howie<br>
Howie Michaelson<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™<br>
<br>
Sun Catcher<br>
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service<br>
VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner<br>
<a href="tel:(802)%20272-0004" value="+18022720004" target="_blank">802-272-0004</a></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 25, 2017 7:59 PM, "Tump"
<<a href="mailto:tump@swnl.net" target="_blank">tump@swnl.net</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Jeff the bad news is
yer outa luck BUT they "had a work around" that was
discussed on the list a few weeks ago. I looked
quickly but didn’t see it posted. You were going to
install a RS 485 card/ module that had the soft ware
to make it work. I found this out just as these
“Newest latest n greatest inverters" were just coming
out, looked at the manual, and much to my
disappointment I had to send it back and educate my
salesperson to this. Lucky for me I was able to get
the TL series. Ill keep on looking, if you don’t have
any luck I do have a contact at SMA…. at least he was
there 2 weeks ago, contact me off list. Tump
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Mar 25, 2017, at 12:10 PM, Jeff
Clearwater <<a href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com" target="_blank">jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="m_-5278478088777178352m_-8682180123997891521Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">All,<br>
<br>
Can anyone confirm for me that the SUNNY
BOY 3.0-US / 3.8-US / 5.0-US / 6.0-US /
7.0-US / 7.7-US series <span style="font-weight:bold">is or is not</span>
supported by the Sunny Island in off-grid
AC coupling mode? The technical paper on
the subject here <a href="http://files.sma.de/dl/7910/SB-OffGrid-TI-US-en-18.pdf" target="_blank">http://files.sma.de/dl/7910/SB<wbr>-OffGrid-TI-US-en-18.pdf</a>
does not list them but I'm hoping it's
cause that paper is dated Feb '16.<br>
<br>
I sure hope they are because that paper
shows they discontinued support the the
SUNNY BOY 3000TL-US / 3800TL-US /
4000TL-US / 5000TL-US / 6000TL-US /
7000TL-US / 7700TL-US series! Why!??<br>
<br>
Hope you have good news for me!<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Jeff<span></span><br>
<br>
<div class="m_-5278478088777178352m_-8682180123997891521moz-signature">--
<br>
<span><span style="font-family:monospace">Jeff
Clearwater</span><br style="font-family:monospace">
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<div><span class="m_-5278478088777178352m_-8682180123997891521Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Times;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span class="m_-5278478088777178352m_-8682180123997891521Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Times;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
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<div class="m_-5278478088777178352moz-signature">-- <br>
<span><span style="font-family:monospace">Jeff Clearwater</span><br style="font-family:monospace">
<span style="font-family:monospace">
Village Power Design</span><br style="font-family:monospace">
<span style="font-family:monospace">
Renewable Energy Design & Installation</span><br>
Ecovillage Design Consultant<br style="font-family:monospace">
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<span style="font-family:monospace">NABCEP™ Certified
Solar PV Installer</span><br style="font-family:monospace">
<span style="font-family:monospace">Licensed Solar
Contractor in CA - C-46</span><br style="font-family:monospace">
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<span class="m_-5278478088777178352__postbox-detected-content m_-5278478088777178352__postbox-detected-phone" style="display:inline;font-size:inherit;padding:0pt"><a href="tel:(413)%20559-9763" value="+14135599763" target="_blank">413-559-9763</a></span></span><br>
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