[RE-wrenches] Conext SW 4024 with bad firmware

Lou Russo lou at spreesolarsystems.com
Thu Dec 29 16:43:31 PST 2016


Thanks to all for the input and suggestions, it is much appreciated. Just
to be clear about the situation, the inverter has already made the AC
transfer, which goes smoothly. The AC IN light is off. At this point the
generator is unloaded and there is no battery charging happening. The
inverter is carrying the loads.  From what Schnieder tells me is that the
software is telling the inverter to follow the Hertz of the generator until
it's below 40 Hertz.

I do believe that manual start is best as it keeps the user in tune with
system. It is what I do at my own home. Unfortunately most clients want the
autostart and don't want to think about it. This is typically not deal
breaker for me and I will push a client only so far on it. In this
particular situation the system is 500 ft away from the home. So the
autostart is mandatory.

And Allan do you happen to know what the firmware version of the inverters
and AGS units are that you recently installed?

Oh and by the way I have come to find out that Sandra no longer works
there.

Thanks again for all the help

On Dec 29, 2016 1:01 PM, "Allan Sindelar" <allan at sindelarsolar.com> wrote:

Lou,
I would add that this problem could be solved by removing any auto gen
start function and controlling the generator manually. Then the default
start/stop procedure is user-controlled: check monitor/start gennie/check
operation; when done, turn off charging at SCP/cool down/shut off gennie.
Voila! no low-hertz glitches. I have long discouraged auto-start in
residential off grid systems, recommending instead user involvement and
manual operation of the gennie.

I have installed several SW Conext systems, so far without a single issue
after commissioning. I applaud Schneider's efforts to turn the wreckage
that they paid Xantrex way too much for into a decent product line with
good support.
Allan

*Allan Sindelar*
allan at sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 <(505)%20780-2738> cell*


On 12/29/2016 1:35 PM, Ray Walters wrote:

I've seen  similar weirdness with many systems of various brands.  The
issue seems to be having the generator shutting down while still under
load, with as you noted, the frequency and voltage dropping, and the
inverter not transferring quick enough.
Basically I suggest to my customers having similar problems to:
A) First, wait for the charge rate to come down, then
B) shut down any other large loads, (ie wait for the water pump to finish
pumping) then
C) manually switch the generator Breaker off,  which allows a cleaner,
quicker transfer.

Some generators have a cool down period after being signaled to shut off,
which solves the problem, too.  Having auto control just shut down the
generator hard under load is always going to be rough. I wouldn't blame it
all on Schneider, although it sounds like in your case the Conext is
extending the low frequency time period, and making it even worse.
A relay might fix the problem too: first have the relay transfer the loads,
and then send the signal to shut down the generator after.

Besides the firmware issue, I think you're noticing this problem more,
because of all the new arc fault junk in the house.  IMHO, arc fault
shouldn't even be required on off grid systems with less than 70 amps
capacity.  Unless they've recently changed the UL testing, arc fault
breakers need a min of 70 amp to even work properly.  Of course they're
annoyingly easy to trip when the frequency and voltage get weird, so off
grid all those arc fault breakers are Not going to trip when they should,
but Will trip when they shouldn't.  More waste of time and money off grid.
Again, just my opinion.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 <(303)%20505-8760>

On 12/29/2016 12:27 PM, Lou Russo wrote:

Wrenches,

I recently installed a Schneider Conext SW 4024, Schnieder's DC
Distribution panel, AC Distribution panel, SCP, and the AGS. It was to be a
straightforward inverter swap, Xantrex 4024 to the Conext SW setup. The
actual installation went fine. I did switch over the house wiring from 120
to 240  as well as the diesel genset.

After a steep learning curve with the client all seemed well. 1 week later
she called and says the power behaves oddly as the generator is shutting
down. Symptoms are some arc fault breakers trip and the compressor on her
fridge sounds like its bogging down. I make the 45 minute drive out and
started my search. This is a site with 3 buildings on 3 acres. I double
checked all my wiring at the inverter, then moved onto the various
buildings checking for redundant neutral to grounds, proper bonding, etc…
Surprisingly although not great workmanship everything is where it is
supposed to be. I decided to give the AC input on the inverter it's own
dedicated neutral as at this point I was reaching for straws and the
installation manual was unclear about this detail. Still nothing. A call to
Schnieder confirmed that there was no setting I was missing.

I placed another call to Schnieder tech support. They did and have
continued to answer the phone promptly. It did take a bit of chasing them
but I finally got a answer that there Level 3 folks can reproduce the
error. The inverter is following the frequency of the genset as it winds
down down to 40hrtz. This is after the AC transfer inside the inverter has
happened. During the cool down period everything is fine. This happens as
the genset is actual shutting off and spinning down to a stop. They say
this a firmware issue and that it will take months to push out as is needs
to be UL listed. In the meantime I have a pissed off client, her oven went
belly up on the low frequency voltage, there is concern about possible
unseen damage to her new water pump, and I  wasted countless hours of my
own time attempting to make the situation right. All of this due to a
firmware that was released with a fatal flaw and can not be changed for
months.

I am extremely disappointed in Schneider. I have been hesitant use them
over the years as I was still scarred from the Xantrex days. My “beta” test
went will with a early version I installed 2 years ago so I figured it was
a safe move. Obviously I was wrong. Lesson learned stick with Outback and
SMA.

So I have 2 questions for the list.

1.Has anybody else on the list seen this issue and corrected it regardless
of the firmware? I have installed one other conext sw about 2 years ago
when it first came out. The setup is very similar except that it is 48V and
has a very old firmware. I went out to this old site to confirm all is well
and it is fine.

2.Does anybody have a good contact at Schneider that could be of help? I
tried to contact Sandra Herrera as she was a great help years ago, but her
phone number no longer works.

3.Does anybody have an old version of the Conext firmware lying around they
could point me to? The website does not seem to have old versions.

Any input is greatly appreciated!

Schnieder, if you have a presence here contact me.


Aloha,

Lou Russo
lou at spreesolarsystems.com
440 345 6762 <(440)%20345-6762>
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322



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