[RE-wrenches] Conext SW 4024 with bad firmware
Allan Sindelar
allan at sindelarsolar.com
Thu Dec 29 15:00:28 PST 2016
Lou,
I would add that this problem could be solved by removing any auto gen
start function and controlling the generator manually. Then the default
start/stop procedure is user-controlled: check monitor/start
gennie/check operation; when done, turn off charging at SCP/cool
down/shut off gennie. Voila! no low-hertz glitches. I have long
discouraged auto-start in residential off grid systems, recommending
instead user involvement and manual operation of the gennie.
I have installed several SW Conext systems, so far without a single
issue after commissioning. I applaud Schneider's efforts to turn the
wreckage that they paid Xantrex way too much for into a decent product
line with good support.
Allan
*Allan Sindelar*
allan at sindelarsolar.com <mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*
**
On 12/29/2016 1:35 PM, Ray Walters wrote:
> I've seen similar weirdness with many systems of various brands. The
> issue seems to be having the generator shutting down while still under
> load, with as you noted, the frequency and voltage dropping, and the
> inverter not transferring quick enough.
> Basically I suggest to my customers having similar problems to:
> A) First, wait for the charge rate to come down, then
> B) shut down any other large loads, (ie wait for the water pump to
> finish pumping) then
> C) manually switch the generator Breaker off, which allows a cleaner,
> quicker transfer.
>
> Some generators have a cool down period after being signaled to shut
> off, which solves the problem, too. Having auto control just shut
> down the generator hard under load is always going to be rough. I
> wouldn't blame it all on Schneider, although it sounds like in your
> case the Conext is extending the low frequency time period, and making
> it even worse.
> A relay might fix the problem too: first have the relay transfer the
> loads, and then send the signal to shut down the generator after.
>
> Besides the firmware issue, I think you're noticing this problem more,
> because of all the new arc fault junk in the house. IMHO, arc fault
> shouldn't even be required on off grid systems with less than 70 amps
> capacity. Unless they've recently changed the UL testing, arc fault
> breakers need a min of 70 amp to even work properly. Of course
> they're annoyingly easy to trip when the frequency and voltage get
> weird, so off grid all those arc fault breakers are Not going to trip
> when they should, but Will trip when they shouldn't. More waste of
> time and money off grid. Again, just my opinion.
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 12/29/2016 12:27 PM, Lou Russo wrote:
>> Wrenches,
>>
>> I recently installed a Schneider Conext SW 4024, Schnieder's DC
>> Distribution panel, AC Distribution panel, SCP, and the AGS. It was
>> to be a straightforward inverter swap, Xantrex 4024 to the Conext SW
>> setup. The actual installation went fine. I did switch over the house
>> wiring from 120 to 240 as well as the diesel genset.
>>
>> After a steep learning curve with the client all seemed well. 1 week
>> later she called and says the power behaves oddly as the generator is
>> shutting down. Symptoms are some arc fault breakers trip and the
>> compressor on her fridge sounds like its bogging down. I make the 45
>> minute drive out and started my search. This is a site with 3
>> buildings on 3 acres. I double checked all my wiring at the inverter,
>> then moved onto the various buildings checking for redundant neutral
>> to grounds, proper bonding, etc… Surprisingly although not great
>> workmanship everything is where it is supposed to be. I decided to
>> give the AC input on the inverter it's own dedicated neutral as at
>> this point I was reaching for straws and the installation manual was
>> unclear about this detail. Still nothing. A call to Schnieder
>> confirmed that there was no setting I was missing.
>>
>> I placed another call to Schnieder tech support. They did and have
>> continued to answer the phone promptly. It did take a bit of chasing
>> them but I finally got a answer that there Level 3 folks can
>> reproduce the error. The inverter is following the frequency of the
>> genset as it winds down down to 40hrtz. This is after the AC transfer
>> inside the inverter has happened. During the cool down period
>> everything is fine. This happens as the genset is actual shutting off
>> and spinning down to a stop. They say this a firmware issue and that
>> it will take months to push out as is needs to be UL listed. In the
>> meantime I have a pissed off client, her oven went belly up on the
>> low frequency voltage, there is concern about possible unseen damage
>> to her new water pump, and I wasted countless hours of my own time
>> attempting to make the situation right. All of this due to a firmware
>> that was released with a fatal flaw and can not be changed for months.
>>
>> I am extremely disappointed in Schneider. I have been hesitant use
>> them over the years as I was still scarred from the Xantrex days. My
>> “beta” test went will with a early version I installed 2 years ago so
>> I figured it was a safe move. Obviously I was wrong. Lesson learned
>> stick with Outback and SMA.
>>
>> So I have 2 questions for the list.
>>
>> 1.Has anybody else on the list seen this issue and corrected it
>> regardless of the firmware? I have installed one other conext sw
>> about 2 years ago when it first came out. The setup is very similar
>> except that it is 48V and has a very old firmware. I went out to this
>> old site to confirm all is well and it is fine.
>>
>> 2.Does anybody have a good contact at Schneider that could be of
>> help? I tried to contact Sandra Herrera as she was a great help years
>> ago, but her phone number no longer works.
>>
>> 3.Does anybody have an old version of the Conext firmware lying
>> around they could point me to? The website does not seem to have old
>> versions.
>>
>> Any input is greatly appreciated!
>>
>> Schnieder, if you have a presence here contact me.
>>
>>
>> Aloha,
>>
>> Lou Russo
>> lou at spreesolarsystems.com <mailto:lou at spreesolarsystems.com>
>> 440 345 6762
>> Spree Solar Systems LLC
>> CT-34322
>>
>>
>>
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