[RE-wrenches] Retrofit variable speed drive to old well pump?

Sun Dec 11 09:17:51 PST 2016

3-wire only for the Franklin MonoDrive. Darn! The Gould version works with
with 2-wire...but only at 240vac. Oh well, after my client chokes down the
well company bill next spring, I'll have a lovely, scenic 4WD trip up the
mountain, do 30 minutes worth of wiring, be the hero, and never have to
hassle with the problem again.
Thanks again, all.

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342

On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the advice, everyone! The problem has been ongoing since the
> system was first installed, it didn't just crop up. I have checked the
> battery bank (8x L-16) under load with a thermal imager and voltmeter and
> refractometer, no issues with cell voltage, SG or bad connections. I'll be
> looking into the Franklin Sub Drive and will report back as far as 2-wire.
>
> Everything here seems to me to be pointing towards an antiquated 2-wire
> well pump with the internal hard start cap possibly blown, or the rotor
> sticky with sediment. It'll be a hard sell to get a new well pump
> set....but when we started talking auto gen start for a boost, an old honda
> 6500kw (that runs the well pump fine) that doesn't have a remote start port
> for the Magnum AGS (Honda piggyback wiring harness nightmare I'd have to
> homebrew), I went into "won't touch that with a 10-foot pole" mode....and
> the local Honda shop said I'd be nuts to attempt it.
>
> Thanks again, all -- I'll report back. The system is no longer accessible,
> this'll be a springtime project.
>
>
> Dan Fink
> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 1:39 AM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey Dan;
>>
>> If this just problem just started, I'm with Drake, you could have a
>> premature cell failure.  I also agree with Allan, 2 wire pumps are
>> certainly problematic on inverters.  Many well service folks don't even
>> install them because they don't last near as long as 3 wire pumps, so your
>> customer may end up needing to replace the pump soon anyway.
>> We've used the Franklin Sub Drive with a 1.5 Hp Pump that would start on
>> an SW 4024, but not on an Outback VFX3524.  Worked well, no call backs.
>> I'm not sure if they will work with a 2 wire pump though.
>> Before you take that long trip, have the customer check individual
>> battery voltages while the pump is running.
>>
>> R.Ray Walters
>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>> Licensed Master Electrician
>> Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 <(303)%20505-8760>
>>
>> On 12/10/2016 3:43 PM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org wrote:
>>
>> Have you checked the condition of the batteries. Unless the L-16s are
>> Rolls or  East Penn, it might be about time for some cells to be going bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
>> "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>> To:
>> "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Cc:
>>
>> Sent:
>> Sat, 10 Dec 2016 10:39:30 -0700
>> Subject:
>> Re: [RE-wrenches] Retrofit variable speed drive to old well pump?
>>
>>
>> Michael; Battery bank voltage at 75% SOC is around 24.7v, so it's in the
>> ballpark and the battery bank has only about 3 years on it (8 x L-16) and
>> not much abuse.
>>
>> Dan Fink
>> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
>> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
>> ~ PV Installation Professional
>> ~ Small Wind Installer
>> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
>> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
>> 970.672.4342
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Shasta Daiku <mjmorningstar at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What is the battery voltage when the client says that SOC is %75?
>>>
>>> VFD driven pumps are three phase. There are single phase “soft start”
>>> controllers for pumps and motors designed for that application, but not for
>>> a two wire fed submersible pump. The pump, for mechanical reasons, not just
>>> electrical,  may may be resisting start up.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Dec 10, 2016, at 9:11 AM, Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Bob; I checked the connections for corrosion, and the wire size looks
>>> like "the usual" for up here in this area, it's only about 100 feet and the
>>> usual well depth around here is 350 ft. Running stouter wire might be an
>>> option to consider...but that's a lot of digging. I'm just hoping VSD might
>>> be a quick and dirty solution.
>>>
>>> Dan Fink
>>> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Scotch Institute be
>>> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
>>> ~ PV Installation Professional
>>> ~ Small Wind Installer
>>> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
>>> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
>>> 970.672.4342
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 9:53 AM, RE Ellison <reellison at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't know about the variable speed but are the wires feeding the pump
>>>> large enough for the distance?
>>>> Sounds like it might be voltage starved because of a high resistance /
>>>> bad connection or a long wire run and the need for a larger wire ?
>>>>
>>>> Just a thought,
>>>> Bob Ellison
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 10, 2016, at 11:39 AM, Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Esteemed Wrenches;
>>>>
>>>> I have a client in a very remote mountain location who is having
>>>> trouble with his inverter starting his well pump when battery state of
>>>> charge is below 75%. 24v system, Magnum inverter.
>>>>
>>>> It's a 2-wire pump, unknown age, model, horsepower, or well depth. It
>>>> has always given him trouble, that's why he upgraded to 24v, and the
>>>> situation is better, but not ideal yet. I don't think adding a hard start
>>>> capacitor would help as there should be one inside the pump itself, though
>>>> I suppose it could be blown.
>>>>
>>>> Because of the distance and the rough road, it would be super expensive
>>>> for a well company to come up there, pull the old pump and set a new,
>>>> modern soft-start one.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone here had any experience with retrofitting variable speed
>>>> drive units to an unknown pump? If so, what models have you tried and what
>>>> do you prefer?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks;
>>>>
>>>> Dan Fink
>>>> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
>>>> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
>>>> ~ PV Installation Professional
>>>> ~ Small Wind Installer
>>>> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
>>>> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
>>>> 970.672.4342
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re
>>>> -wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re
>>>> -wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re
>>> -wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re
>>> -wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re
>> -wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20161211/8a7dafcf/attachment-0003.html>