[RE-wrenches] Retrofit variable speed drive to old well pump?

Dan Fink danbob88 at gmail.com
Sun Dec 11 08:40:36 PST 2016


Thanks for the advice, everyone! The problem has been ongoing since the
system was first installed, it didn't just crop up. I have checked the
battery bank (8x L-16) under load with a thermal imager and voltmeter and
refractometer, no issues with cell voltage, SG or bad connections. I'll be
looking into the Franklin Sub Drive and will report back as far as 2-wire.

Everything here seems to me to be pointing towards an antiquated 2-wire
well pump with the internal hard start cap possibly blown, or the rotor
sticky with sediment. It'll be a hard sell to get a new well pump
set....but when we started talking auto gen start for a boost, an old honda
6500kw (that runs the well pump fine) that doesn't have a remote start port
for the Magnum AGS (Honda piggyback wiring harness nightmare I'd have to
homebrew), I went into "won't touch that with a 10-foot pole" mode....and
the local Honda shop said I'd be nuts to attempt it.

Thanks again, all -- I'll report back. The system is no longer accessible,
this'll be a springtime project.


Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342



On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 1:39 AM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:

> Hey Dan;
>
> If this just problem just started, I'm with Drake, you could have a
> premature cell failure.  I also agree with Allan, 2 wire pumps are
> certainly problematic on inverters.  Many well service folks don't even
> install them because they don't last near as long as 3 wire pumps, so your
> customer may end up needing to replace the pump soon anyway.
> We've used the Franklin Sub Drive with a 1.5 Hp Pump that would start on
> an SW 4024, but not on an Outback VFX3524.  Worked well, no call backs.
> I'm not sure if they will work with a 2 wire pump though.
> Before you take that long trip, have the customer check individual battery
> voltages while the pump is running.
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 <(303)%20505-8760>
>
> On 12/10/2016 3:43 PM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org wrote:
>
> Have you checked the condition of the batteries. Unless the L-16s are
> Rolls or  East Penn, it might be about time for some cells to be going bad.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> To:
> "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Cc:
>
> Sent:
> Sat, 10 Dec 2016 10:39:30 -0700
> Subject:
> Re: [RE-wrenches] Retrofit variable speed drive to old well pump?
>
>
> Michael; Battery bank voltage at 75% SOC is around 24.7v, so it's in the
> ballpark and the battery bank has only about 3 years on it (8 x L-16) and
> not much abuse.
>
> Dan Fink
> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Shasta Daiku <mjmorningstar at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What is the battery voltage when the client says that SOC is %75?
>>
>> VFD driven pumps are three phase. There are single phase “soft start”
>> controllers for pumps and motors designed for that application, but not for
>> a two wire fed submersible pump. The pump, for mechanical reasons, not just
>> electrical,  may may be resisting start up.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2016, at 9:11 AM, Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bob; I checked the connections for corrosion, and the wire size looks
>> like "the usual" for up here in this area, it's only about 100 feet and the
>> usual well depth around here is 350 ft. Running stouter wire might be an
>> option to consider...but that's a lot of digging. I'm just hoping VSD might
>> be a quick and dirty solution.
>>
>> Dan Fink
>> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Scotch Institute be
>> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
>> ~ PV Installation Professional
>> ~ Small Wind Installer
>> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
>> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
>> 970.672.4342
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 9:53 AM, RE Ellison <reellison at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Don't know about the variable speed but are the wires feeding the pump
>>> large enough for the distance?
>>> Sounds like it might be voltage starved because of a high resistance /
>>> bad connection or a long wire run and the need for a larger wire ?
>>>
>>> Just a thought,
>>> Bob Ellison
>>>
>>> On Dec 10, 2016, at 11:39 AM, Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Esteemed Wrenches;
>>>
>>> I have a client in a very remote mountain location who is having trouble
>>> with his inverter starting his well pump when battery state of charge is
>>> below 75%. 24v system, Magnum inverter.
>>>
>>> It's a 2-wire pump, unknown age, model, horsepower, or well depth. It
>>> has always given him trouble, that's why he upgraded to 24v, and the
>>> situation is better, but not ideal yet. I don't think adding a hard start
>>> capacitor would help as there should be one inside the pump itself, though
>>> I suppose it could be blown.
>>>
>>> Because of the distance and the rough road, it would be super expensive
>>> for a well company to come up there, pull the old pump and set a new,
>>> modern soft-start one.
>>>
>>> Has anyone here had any experience with retrofitting variable speed
>>> drive units to an unknown pump? If so, what models have you tried and what
>>> do you prefer?
>>>
>>> Thanks;
>>>
>>> Dan Fink
>>> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
>>> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
>>> ~ PV Installation Professional
>>> ~ Small Wind Installer
>>> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
>>> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
>>> 970.672.4342
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
>>> org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
>>> org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
>> org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
>> org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20161211/d37a33b3/attachment-0002.html>


More information about the RE-wrenches mailing list