[RE-wrenches] Retaining Clips

August Goers august at luminalt.com
Wed Nov 30 17:13:22 PST 2016


Hi Adam,



Most load center panels list backfed breaker requirements on the inside of
the cover or inside the can. Some panels do no require  breaker hold down
kits at all, even when backfeeding as a main breaker.



As you mention below, utility-interactive inverter breakers don’t need to
be fastened – check out 2014 NEC 705.12(D)(4) and (5):





I’m still not fully understanding what you’re trying to accomplish. If you
need overcurrent protection for your supply side connection then you can
use a fused disconnect or a backfed breaker with numerous different
configurations to your inverter(s). I believe it is okay to run your
utility side conductors to the panel lugs if need be, but in my opinion
that is not ideal for servicing.



Best, August



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *AE Solar
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:12 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Retaining Clips



Sorry I should have elaborated more from the beginning.



I am using the panel as a service disconnect for a lineside connection
(can’t use a fused/bladed disco because of space constraints). Originally I
bought a QO 70A panel, but soon realized that the Square D retention clip
(PK2MB) is only compatible with their larger panels. So I bought a larger
panel (100A 8 Circuit) and then received some feedback that having the open
spaces (even if labeled that “Do Not Add Loads”) could raise a flag with an
inspector. So then I was back on the hunt for a dedicated 2 Pole 60A or 70A
panel with a compatible retention clip for a 30A breaker. Eaton’s retention
options only start in the 60A range (the smaller breakers don’t have the
hole in them to put the bolt through). Square D said they don’t have an
option for their 70A panel. There aren’t any good Siemans distributors near
me but I wasn’t finding an option via google for them either.



I talked with another Wrencher on the phone and received this feedback
which I’m just going to cut and paste to include it in this thread:


“The NEC doesn’t require a hold down clamp for the circuit breaker unless
it can be backfed from a multi-mode or stand-alone inverter (690.10(E)).

The language implies that a hold-down is therefore not required elsewhere.
Most modern breakers (def. QO’s) are not marked “line” and “load” so no
problem there (also in same code section).



Even when it was a requirement for all PV outputs, John Wiles had argued
that taking off the panel cover, which required a tool, served as the
hold-down, and this was generally accepted.”



So taken that advice I’m back to using the QO 70A panel but without a
retention clip (or calling the lid the "retention clip").



For what its worth I have passed inspections prior using the retaining clip
from a generator interlock kit (QOCGK2C) on a QO 100A panel, but felt like
there must be a better option out there....


Adam Katzman
Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245

Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.com
(518) 567-1468



On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Drake <
drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org> wrote:

Siemens has main breaker retainers. The retainers for QO seem work on some
boxes and not others. It doesn't work on 6 space boxes I've purchased, but
does work on the 8.

At 10:14 PM 11/29/2016, you wrote:


Wrenchers,

I’m trying to find a 60A 2 Pole Breaker Box that has a compatible
retaining clip. The QO retaining clip (PK2MBCP) seems to only be compatible
with their 4-8 circuit load centers. What are my options? Thanks!

Thanks

Adam
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