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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hi Adam,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Most load center panels list backfed breaker requirements on the inside of the cover or inside the can. Some panels do no require breaker hold down kits at all, even when backfeeding as a main breaker. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">As you mention below, utility-interactive inverter breakers don’t need to be fastened – check out 2014 NEC 705.12(D)(4) and (5):</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><img width="498" height="213" id="Picture_x0020_10" src="cid:image002.png@01D24B2B.9A213470"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I’m still not fully understanding what you’re trying to accomplish. If you need overcurrent protection for your supply side connection then you can use a fused disconnect or a backfed breaker with numerous different configurations to your inverter(s). I believe it is okay to run your utility side conductors to the panel lugs if need be, but in my opinion that is not ideal for servicing.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best, August</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>AE Solar<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 30, 2016 8:12 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Retaining Clips</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Sorry I should have elaborated more from the beginning. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I am using the panel as a service disconnect for a lineside connection (can’t use a fused/bladed disco because of space constraints). Originally I bought a QO 70A panel, but soon realized that the Square D retention clip (PK2MB) is only compatible with their larger panels. So I bought a larger panel (100A 8 Circuit) and then received some feedback that having the open spaces (even if labeled that “Do Not Add Loads”) could raise a flag with an inspector. So then I was back on the hunt for a dedicated 2 Pole 60A or 70A panel with a compatible retention clip for a 30A breaker. Eaton’s retention options only start in the 60A range (the smaller breakers don’t have the hole in them to put the bolt through). Square D said they don’t have an option for their 70A panel. There aren’t any good Siemans distributors near me but I wasn’t finding an option via google for them either.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I talked with another Wrencher on the phone and received this feedback which I’m just going to cut and paste to include it in this thread:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br>“<span style="color:#1a1a1a">The NEC doesn’t require a hold down clamp for the circuit breaker unless it can be backfed from a multi-mode or stand-alone inverter (690.10(E)).</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1a1a1a">The language implies that a hold-down is therefore not required elsewhere. Most modern breakers (def. QO’s) are not marked “line” and “load” so no problem there (also in same code section).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1a1a1a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1a1a1a">Even when it was a requirement for all PV outputs, John Wiles had argued that taking off the panel cover, which required a tool, served as the hold-down, and this was generally accepted.”</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1a1a1a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1a1a1a">So taken that advice I’m back to using the QO 70A panel but without a retention clip (or calling the lid the "retention clip").</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1a1a1a"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1a1a1a">For what its worth I have passed inspections prior using the retaining clip from a generator interlock kit (QOCGK2C) on a QO 100A panel, but felt like there must be a better option out there....</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all"></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Adam Katzman<br>Autonomous Energies<br>PO Box 1245</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Kingston, NY 12402<br><a href="http://www.autonomousenergies.com" target="_blank">www.autonomousenergies.com</a><br>(518) 567-1468</p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Drake <<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org" target="_blank">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>> wrote:</p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Siemens has main breaker retainers. The retainers for QO seem work on some boxes and not others. It doesn't work on 6 space boxes I've purchased, but does work on the 8. <br><br>At 10:14 PM 11/29/2016, you wrote:<br><br><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">Wrenchers,<br><br>I’m trying to find a 60A 2 Pole Breaker Box that has a compatible retaining clip. The QO retaining clip (PK2MBCP) seems to only be compatible with their 4-8 circuit load centers<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">. What are my options? Thanks!<br></span><br>Thanks<br><br>Adam<br>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a> <br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a> <br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><hr size="1" width="99%" noshade style="color:#909090" align="center"></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse"><tr><td style="padding:0in 11.25pt 0in 6.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img border="0" id="_x0000_i1026" src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" alt="Avast logo"></span></a></p></td><td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3d4d5a">This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. <br><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a> </span></p></td></tr></table><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></body></html>