[RE-wrenches] Winter Battery Maintenance

Mon May 2 09:52:13 PDT 2016

All of the below seem to be contributing factors. It basically called lack
of care. Over filling, under filling, not doing SG tests and dealing with
the results, leaving loads on with not backup generator on site or hooked
up. Sloppy, Lazy, or total lack of a real battery care program. Not for lack
of our team trying to impress folks with the consequences of poor care.

You can lead a horse to water.....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

E - dana at solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com 

O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of frenergy
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2016 9:42 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Winter Battery Maintenance

Larry,    

            When you say "customers ruin the batteries" are they sulphating
to death or electrolyte getting too low or?  And your sure its due to the
lack of...cycling? watering? proper charging? during the prolonged periods
or just poor care overall.

Thanks for a bit more insight.

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric            
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net

On 5/1/2016 9:54 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:

Seasonal use is a very frequent application that we design for in Mexico and
Canada. Usually the seasonal residence sets for 6 months or longer. We have
tried several methods of preserving flooded battery life including
water-miser caps, short absorb times, no absorb time, 2 stage charge with
the CV below gassing point and battery additives.  Even so, more than half
of our Mexico customers ruin batteries in 3-5 years due to prolonged periods
without maintenance. The northern customers fair much better.  

AGM's perform much better than flooded but Lithium batteries are the best
for long term non-use. You can simply discharge the battery to 50% then turn
off the battery and walk away. When you return in 6-7 months, you will find
it at the same SoC as when you left. For long term seasonal storage, that is
all I recommend anymore.      

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems

On Apr 30, 2016, at 12:54 PM, Dana <dana at solarwork.com> wrote:

I have yet to see any FLA battery that can go 4-5 months without service.
Typically a FLA needs an increased voltage to attain the same full charge
rating at low temps, but you still require watering. I have clients with
shut down houses and no load situations, we back off the Absorb set point
voltage, & time at full & they still require watering.

This thread started with "? I don't think the friend will be savvy enough to
disconnect/connect them every year and I don't feel like having to go out
there every season for them."

Based on this statement would you still recommend FAL batteries? I have
clients with AGMS that are partial year residents & their AGMS are at 8-10
years and still doing the job. That said some clients even full time
occupants cannot water & test the SG on a FLA to save their life (or sustain
the batteries life).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

E - dana at solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com 

O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Starlight Solar Power Systems
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2016 1:28 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Winter Battery Maintenance

I agree with Todd and Bob, leave the PV solar on, EQ off. 

I also instruct my customers to reduce the absorb timer to 0.1 hours. Since
the battery is staying full, there is no need to spend time above cell
gassing point which will increase water loss.

Larry

On Apr 30, 2016, at 10:28 AM, RE Ellison <reellison at gmail.com> wrote:

Everything mentioned so far works well however, if you're using a charge
controller with an auto equalize function.

Turn it off!

I had a friend who has left his system over the winter for years with no
issues and he shut his inverters off one year got back to the batteries
being boiled dry

After a lot of looking I figured out that it had gone into auto equalize and
since the available sunshine per day was so low that it just kept trying all
winter long to equalize the batteries

There was a battery replacement in his future relatively quickly!

It was an expensive lesson and I have since gone to all of the systems
similar to that that I have installed over the years and shut off the auto
equalize

It's not an issue if somebody's around but they were gone for like five
months and it was not a good outcome

This particular system had three charge controllers,

A combination of MX 60 and FM 60s I believe

Just my thoughts,

Bob ellison

On Apr 30, 2016, at 12:43 PM, toddcory at finestplanet.com wrote:

i built a system for a friend's seasonal (summer) off-grid residence in
alaska. 

my instructions were simple: 

leave the pv input & cc output breakers "on" and the load breakers
(inverter, dc sunfrost etc) "off". 

there was never a problem with winter freezing (even at -40f) until one year
when he accidently left the inverter's breaker on. even with no load, the
inverter's idle current drained the batteries and they froze. he only made
that mistake once.

todd

On Saturday, April 30, 2016 8:13am, "Solar" <dahlsolar at gmail.com> said:

> I do systems like this every year. (-45F winter temps). Use quick connects
and
> train the customer on the batteries and their maintenance. Find bats with
freeze
> points that match your area. I typically mount the modules at 90degree so
snow
> never covers the array/module.
> 
> I always recommend removal. I've thought about temp controlled
incandescent lamp
> with a timer in a battery box for really cold nights.... Haven't got
around to
> working through that design.
> 
> I'm interested in the real seasoned off-grid installers thoughts about
this.
> 
> Jesse Dahl
> 
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> IBEW Local 292 - Electrician
> Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Apr 30, 2016, at 9:07 AM, AE Solar <autonomousenergies at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Wrenchers,
> >
> > A friend wants a very small battery set up at hunting cabin (like under
1kW).
> It will only be used in the warmer months. I'm wondering what you all
recommend
> for the batteries over the winter. I assume the ideal situation would be
that they
> would be disconnected and brought somewhere warm for the winter (the cabin
will be
> subject to below freezing temps)??
> >
> > So long as they go into the colder months with a full charge is it
alright to
> leave them hooked up? I don't think the friend will be savvy enough to
> disconnect/connect them every year and I don't feel like having to go out
there
> every season for them.
> >
> > Thanks for any thoughts.
> > Adam
> >
> > Adam Katzman
> > Autonomous Energies
> >

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-- 
Feather River Solar Electric            
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net
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