[RE-wrenches] NEC 705.12 Point of Connection - 120% rule for center-fed panelboards

Fri Mar 4 06:53:02 PST 2016

Bill, I am just pointing out that JW's article seems to be what the NEC 
says in 2014, that's all. Again it is great that you were able to get 
new language in 2017. I am in a job where we have to compare 2008 to 
2014as 2008 is in effect, but 2014 has somany more interconnection 
options, that we advise the installers to take the 2014 NEC to the AHJ 
and show that new interconnectionmethods are available and should be 
considered by the AHJ even thoughNEC 2008 in the current code. One thing 
for sure, it is changing very quickly and I think most of us are having 
a very difficult time keeping up with it. At least I am.

Rapid Shut Down is going to be more of an issue than thisI think, and 
that is going to be chewed over quite a bit on Wrenches Ibet. Chris

On 3/3/2016 3:40 PM, billbrooks7 at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> Â
>
> While Johnâ€™s article may seem like a logical interpretation of the 
> 2014 NEC, if you lived in the western half of the United States where 
> these panels are common, you would have a very different view of his 
> choice of articles.
>
> Â
>
> His article sites a technicality that is not a safety concern in the 
> least. Of all the things that AHJs have to worry about with PV, this 
> has to be at the very bottom of the listâ€”and yet this is the only 
> thing that many AHJs look at because someone wrote an article about 
> it. We set the record straight in the 2017 NEC, but that does not fix 
> the fact that literally 1,000s of these perfectly fine panels have 
> been removed due to the focus of this magazine article.
>
> Â
>
> Your opinion of this interpretation would be very different if you had 
> lost a PV system sale because someone was unwilling to incur the extra 
> cost of a panel change out when you knew it was totally unnecessary.
>
> Â
>
> I have all the respect in the world for what you are doing in the 
> northeast. Iâ€™m just helping with some â€œperspectiveâ€ from the 
> left coast.
>
> Â
>
> Iâ€™m off my high horse,
>
> Â
>
> Bill.
>
> Â
>
> *From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] 
> *On Behalf Of *Christopher Warfel
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 03, 2016 6:42 AM
> *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC 705.12 Point of Connection - 120% 
> rule for center-fed panelboards
>
> Â
>
> This is a link to John Wiles article on NEC2014 for this topic. To my 
> knowledge, no one has adopted NEC2017, so it would seem that this 
> article is appropriate for the most recent NEC published. As noted 
> AHJs can allow exceptions, and it is great that new language is now 
> approved for NEC2017, but that wasn't the case when John Wiles 
> published his article.
>
> http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2014/07/10/center-fed-load-centers-and-panelboards/
>
> There is also pdf version here.
>
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjl8OmH26TLAhWI7D4KHcbJAHQQFggjMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdept-wp.nmsu.edu%2Fswtdi%2Ffiles%2F2015%2F11%2Fiaei_jul-aug_2014.pdf&usg=AFQjCNERV2M21V1nvLlvLVSLZUMoj36J_A&sig2=g145SdF1HzNuHc0P6NXshw&bvm=bv.115339255,d.cWw&cad=rja
>
>
> Chris
>
>
> On 3/2/2016 2:24 PM, billbrooks7 at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
>     All,
>
>     Â
>
>     Here is the new language that has been approved for the 2017 NEC
>     (more authoritative than JW).
>
>     Â
>
>     705.12(B)(3)(d)
>
>     Â
>
>     (d) A connection at either end, but not both ends, of a center-fed
>     panelboard in dwellings shall be permitted where the sum of 125
>     percent of the power source(s) output circuit current and the
>     rating of the overcurrent device protecting the busbar does not
>     exceed 120 percent of the current rating of the busbar.
>
>     Â
>
>     This clarifies that it was never the intent of the NEC to limit
>     the 120% rule to the opposite end of the busbar for dwellings (it
>     was allowed from 2005 back to 1987). I was able to convince the
>     panel that centerfed panels did not need the opposite end
>     stipulation. Several large jurisdictions in California or
>     considering making an official policy accepting the language of
>     the 2017 NEC on this item. Please share this with your own
>     jurisdiction.
>
>     Â
>
>     Bill.
>
>     Â
>
>     Â
>
>     *From:* RE-wrenches
>     [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of
>     *Glenn Burt
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, March 02, 2016 10:54 AM
>     *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>     <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC 705.12 Point of Connection - 120%
>     rule for center-fed panelboards
>
>     Â
>
>     I believe that John Wiles has stated this in a couple of places in
>     print, therefore you may have a tough time justifying a way around
>     the rule to an AHJ.
>
>     Supply side connections are very popular in this situation.
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From: *August Goers <mailto:august at luminalt.com>
>     *Sent: *â€Ž3/â€Ž2/â€Ž2016 11:32
>     *To: *RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>     *Subject: *[RE-wrenches] NEC 705.12 Point of Connection - 120%
>     rule for center-fed panelboards
>
>     All â€“
>
>     Â
>
>     We are seeing more AHJs not allowing us to use the NEC
>     7015.12(D)(2)(3)(b) 120% rule on center-fed panelboards. For
>     example, if we have a 100 A meter/main combo with a center fed 100
>     A breaker we cannot apply the 120% rule at all and need to do a
>     panel swap. What are other wrenches doing in this case?
>
>     Â
>
>     Best,
>
>     Â
>
>     August
>
>     Luminalt
>
>
>
>
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> -- 
> Christopher Warfel, President
> ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
> 401-466-8978
>
>
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-- 
Christopher Warfel, President
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
401-466-8978

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