<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<tt><font size="+1">Bill, I am just pointin<tt>g out that J<tt>W's
article seems to be what the NEC sa<tt>ys in <tt>2014,
that's all. <tt>Again it is great that you were able to
get new language in 2017. <tt>I am in a job where we
have to compare <tt>2008 to 2014<tt> as 2008 is in
effect, but 2014 has so<tt> many more inter<tt>connection
options<tt>, <tt>that we <tt>advise the
installers to take the 2014 <tt>NEC
to the AHJ and show that new <tt>interconnection<tt>
<tt>me<tt>thods are availab<tt>le
and sho<tt>uld be
considered by the AHJ
even though<tt> NEC 2008
in the current code.
One thing for sure, it
is changing very
quickly and I think
most of us are having
a very <tt>difficult
time <tt>keeping up
with it. At least
I am<tt>. <br>
<br>
<tt>Rapid Shut
Down is going
to be more of
an issue tha<tt>n
this<tt> I <tt>think<tt>,
</tt></tt><tt>and
that is going
to be che<tt>wed
over quite a
bit on <tt>Wre<tt>nches
I<tt> <tt>bet.
C<tt>hris</tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt><br>
</tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></font></tt><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/3/2016 3:40 PM, <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net">billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net</a></a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:00ca01d1758c$e1b0d9f0$a5128dd0$@sbcglobal.net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]-->
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Times New Roman \,serif";
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
tt
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle24
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Chris,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">While
Johnâs article may seem like a logical interpretation of
the 2014 NEC, if you lived in the western half of the United
States where these panels are common, you would have a very
different view of his choice of articles.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">His article
sites a technicality that is not a safety concern in the
least. Of all the things that AHJs have to worry about with
PV, this has to be at the very bottom of the listâand yet
this is the only thing that many AHJs look at because
someone wrote an article about it. We set the record
straight in the 2017 NEC, but that does not fix the fact
that literally 1,000s of these perfectly fine panels have
been removed due to the focus of this magazine article.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Your opinion
of this interpretation would be very different if you had
lost a PV system sale because someone was unwilling to incur
the extra cost of a panel change out when you knew it was
totally unnecessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I have all
the respect in the world for what you are doing in the
northeast. Iâm just helping with some âperspectiveâ
from the left coast.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Iâm off my
high horse,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Bill.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="color:windowtext"> RE-wrenches [<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Christopher Warfel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 03, 2016 6:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC 705.12 Point of
Connection - 120% rule for center-fed panelboards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><tt><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">This is a link to John Wiles
article on NEC2014 for this topic. To my knowledge, no one
has adopted NEC2017, so it would seem that this article is
appropriate for the most recent NEC published. As noted
AHJs can allow exceptions, and it is great that new
language is now approved for NEC2017, but that wasn't the
case when John Wiles published his article.</span></tt><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
<tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2014/07/10/center-fed-load-centers-and-panelboards/">http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2014/07/10/center-fed-load-centers-and-panelboards/</a></tt><br>
<br>
<tt>There is also pdf version here.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjl8OmH26TLAhWI7D4KHcbJAHQQFggjMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdept-wp.nmsu.edu%2Fswtdi%2Ffiles%2F2015%2F11%2Fiaei_jul-aug_2014.pdf&usg=AFQjCNERV2M21V1nvLlvLVSLZUMoj36J_A&sig2=g145SdF1HzNuHc0P6NXshw&bvm=bv.115339255,d.cWw&cad=rja">https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjl8OmH26TLAhWI7D4KHcbJAHQQFggjMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdept-wp.nmsu.edu%2Fswtdi%2Ffiles%2F2015%2F11%2Fiaei_jul-aug_2014.pdf&usg=AFQjCNERV2M21V1nvLlvLVSLZUMoj36J_A&sig2=g145SdF1HzNuHc0P6NXshw&bvm=bv.115339255,d.cWw&cad=rja</a></tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Chris</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/2/2016 2:24 PM, <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net">billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net</a></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here is the new language that has been
approved for the 2017 NEC (more authoritative than JW).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">705.12(B)(3)(d)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(d)
A connection at either end, but not both ends, of a
center-fed panelboard in dwellings shall be permitted
where the sum of 125 percent of the power source(s) output
circuit current and the rating of the overcurrent device
protecting the busbar does not exceed 120 percent of the
current rating of the busbar.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This clarifies that it was never the
intent of the NEC to limit the 120% rule to the opposite end
of the busbar for dwellings (it was allowed from 2005 back
to 1987). I was able to convince the panel that centerfed
panels did not need the opposite end stipulation. Several
large jurisdictions in California or considering making an
official policy accepting the language of the 2017 NEC on
this item. Please share this with your own jurisdiction.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bill.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches [<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Glenn Burt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 02, 2016 10:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC 705.12 Point of
Connection - 120% rule for center-fed panelboards<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I believe that John Wiles has stated
this in a couple of places in print, therefore you may
have a tough time justifying a way around the rule to an
AHJ.<br>
<br>
Supply side connections are very popular in this
situation.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman ,serif",serif">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b>From: </b><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:august@luminalt.com">August
Goers</a><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman ,serif",serif"><br>
</span><b>Sent: </b>â3/â2/â2016 11:32<span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman ,serif",serif"><br>
</span><b>To: </b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman ,serif",serif"><br>
</span><b>Subject: </b>[RE-wrenches] NEC 705.12 Point of
Connection - 120% rule for center-fed panelboards<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">All â<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are seeing more AHJs not allowing us
to use the NEC 7015.12(D)(2)(3)(b) 120% rule on center-fed
panelboards. For example, if we have a 100 A meter/main
combo with a center fed 100 A breaker we cannot apply the
120% rule at all and need to do a panel swap. What are other
wrenches doing in this case?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">August<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Luminalt<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>Â </o:p></pre>
<pre>List Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>Â </o:p></pre>
<pre>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>Â </o:p></pre>
<pre>List-Archive: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>Â </o:p></pre>
<pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>Â </o:p></pre>
<pre>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>Â </o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Christopher Warfel, President<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>ENTECH Engineering, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>401-466-8978<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Christopher Warfel, President
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
401-466-8978</pre>
</body>
</html>