[RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries
Ray Walters
ray at solarray.com
Fri Jan 29 11:37:46 PST 2016
That new chart is for a single block, but we would want the M100 or M110
which is 12 of those S30 blocks connected together (580 AH @ 20 hr
rate). I haven't tried them, but I penciled out the ROI and at 3000
cycles they stand up well against other lead acid batteries. 40 v is
low, but I believe most inverters can be set to LVD at 40.
Magnum for instance can go as low as 36 v on a 48 v nom. setup.
I agree with Dan that the minimum temp is a problem for many remote
applications.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 1/29/2016 11:52 AM, Dan Fink wrote:
> I second Larry's concerns about Aquion's SOC/voltage curves and
> tripping LVD at only 40% DOD with standard PV equipment, tied in with
> not being able to handle high discharge C-rates and surge loads. I did
> some math on running a typical off-grid home with a well pump on
> Aquions, and it wasn't pretty, but I may not have done the math right.
> Very interested to hear personal experience on off-grid homes with
> these batteries.
>
> I was starting to envision applications for remote MET tower,
> repeater tower etc applications with low discharge C-rates and high
> charging C-rates, and then saw Aquions lowest operation temperature of
> -5C, 23 F. That's considered a "heat wave" during certain times of
> year in many areas, including here in sunny Colorado. In these
> applications the batteries are NOT in a heated room, instead an
> outdoor enclosure at the base of a tower.
>
> AGMs are serving us here just fine on these sorts of esoteric
> installations, and they have no problem with -29C and lower when kept
> at high SOC. And, cheap, easy to replace, and giving us many years of
> life. The ROI math on the Aquions compared to AGM is not adding up for
> me on these applications.
>
> My only experience with Aquion was their class at the NABCEP
> conference last year.
>
> Any ground truth experience and stories on Aquions and other similar
> technologies appreciated here also.
>
> Best regards;
>
> Dan Fink
> Adjunct Professor, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Accredited Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342 <tel:970.672.4342>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 7:55 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems
> <larry at starlightsolar.com <mailto:larry at starlightsolar.com>> wrote:
>
> I too am interested in anyone that has installed these. I had some
> concerns back on Nov 10, 2014. Here is a copy/past from that
> conversation:
>
> Something does not add up to me. The cell has a voltage discharge
> curve way outside that of RE equipment, 1.75 Vpc down to 0.5Vpc. I
> can't see how this technology could be scaled to RE applications
> without wasting much of the capacity. From what I see, only about
> 40% could be used before LVD.
>
> And this:
> The Aquion battery claims their 2.4kWh, 48 volt stack operates
> from 59 to 30 volts. Many inverters have a LBCO of 1.75 Vpc (42
> volts). Depending on voltage sag, that means about half of the
> capacity of the Aquion battery can't be used. Even if the outback
> can operate down to 1.5 Vpc, you are still not able to use the
> full capacity of the battery unless your load is less than 800 Watts.
>
> I have reviewed their technical presentation and it looks to me
> like the capacity simply can't be used in the off grid
> environment. If you can't use it, why do they rate it at 2.4kWh?
> BTW, the Voltage vs.Energy chart on the spec sheet does not match
> the first chart I posted.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 29, 2016, at 7:30 AM, Chris Schaefer
> <chris at solarandwindfx.com <mailto:chris at solarandwindfx.com>> wrote:
>
> To All,
> Great insight on the lithium movement. I do am looking for anyone
> dealing with the new Aquion batteries. I’ve got a couple of
> potential clients that have inquired about them. Saw them at a
> NABCEP training session last spring and while the idea is moving I
> wasn’t impressed. Perhaps it’s time to start a new thread, “Aquion
> batteries”.
> Thanks,
> Christopher
> *From:*RE-wrenches
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of
> *don at energysolarnow.com <mailto:don at energysolarnow.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, 29 January, 2016 00:49
> *To:* Dan Fink
> *Cc:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of
> Powerwall Batteries
> Thanks for sharing your experience with these batteries, Dan.
> I have similar SOC issues with an off-grid customer who has the
> Aquion Hybrid Ion batteries.
> It has difficulty reaching full charge from solar, requiring the
> genny to kick on each morning even in the summer.
> This is even worse in cold winter weather.
> Your explanation of the change in Peukert's exponent above 80% SOC
> with NiFe batteries sounds like what is happening here as well.
> Do you have any experience with Aquion batteries that you can share?
> Thanks
> Don Barch
> Energy Solar
> don at energysolarnow.com <mailto:don at energysolarnow.com>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20160129/ee6f7a9f/attachment-0002.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/png
Size: 71704 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20160129/ee6f7a9f/attachment-0004.png>
More information about the RE-wrenches
mailing list