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That new chart is for a single block, but we would want the M100 or
M110 which is 12 of those S30 blocks connected together (580 AH @ 20
hr rate). I haven't tried them, but I penciled out the ROI and at
3000 cycles they stand up well against other lead acid batteries.
40 v is low, but I believe most inverters can be set to LVD at 40.<br>
Magnum for instance can go as low as 36 v on a 48 v nom. setup.<br>
I agree with Dan that the minimum temp is a problem for many remote
applications.<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/29/2016 11:52 AM, Dan Fink wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAF+3LnfX2is6p4=Vmkok9DBdBmTipUdNm2hpNFnWx1ijdSu4cg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I second Larry's concerns about Aquion's
SOC/voltage curves and tripping LVD at only 40% DOD with
standard PV equipment, tied in with not being able to handle
high discharge C-rates and surge loads. I did some math on
running a typical off-grid home with a well pump on Aquions, and
it wasn't pretty, but I may not have done the math right. Very
interested to hear personal experience on off-grid homes with
these batteries.
<div><br>
</div>
<div> I was starting to envision applications for remote MET
tower, repeater tower etc applications with low discharge
C-rates and high charging C-rates, and then saw Aquions lowest
operation temperature of -5C, 23 F. That's considered a "heat
wave" during certain times of year in many areas, including
here in sunny Colorado. In these applications the batteries
are NOT in a heated room, instead an outdoor enclosure at the
base of a tower.</div>
<div><br>
<div>AGMs are serving us here just fine on these sorts of
esoteric installations, and they have no problem with -29C
and lower when kept at high SOC. And, cheap, easy to
replace, and giving us many years of life. The ROI math on
the Aquions compared to AGM is not adding up for me on these
applications.</div>
<div><br>
<div>My only experience with Aquion was their class at the
NABCEP conference last year. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>Any ground truth experience and stories on Aquions and
other similar technologies appreciated here also.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards;</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Dan
Fink</span>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Adjunct
Professor, Ecotech Institute</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">IREC
Certified Instructor™ for: </div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~ PV
Installation Professional</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~
Small Wind Installer</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Executive
Director, Buckville Energy</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">NABCEP
Accredited Continuing Education Providers™<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:970.672.4342" value="+19706724342"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">970.672.4342</a></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 7:55 AM,
Starlight Solar Power Systems <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com">larry@starlightsolar.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">I too am interested in
anyone that has installed these. I had some concerns back
on Nov 10, 2014. Here is a copy/past from that
conversation:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Something does not add up to me. The cell has a
voltage discharge curve way outside that of RE
equipment, 1.75 Vpc down to 0.5Vpc. I can't see how this
technology could be scaled to RE applications without
wasting much of the capacity. From what I see, only
about 40% could be used before LVD.</div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></div>
<div>And this:</div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The
Aquion battery claims their 2.4kWh, 48 volt stack
operates from 59 to 30 volts. Many inverters have a
LBCO of 1.75 Vpc (42 volts). Depending on voltage sag,
that means about half of the capacity of the Aquion
battery can't be used. Even if the outback can operate
down to 1.5 Vpc, you are still not able to use the
full capacity of the battery unless your load is less
than 800 Watts. </span><br
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I have
reviewed their technical presentation and it looks to
me like the capacity simply can't be used in the off
grid environment. If you can't use it, why do they
rate it at 2.4kWh? BTW, the Voltage vs.Energy chart on
the spec sheet does not match the first chart I
posted.</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><img src="cid:part3.08030303.01040100@solarray.com"
height="415" width="449"><br>
<div>
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</div>
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<br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 29, 2016, at 7:30 AM, Chris Schaefer <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">To
All,</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
Great insight on the lithium movement. I do
am looking for anyone dealing with the new
Aquion batteries. I’ve got a couple of
potential clients that have inquired about
them. Saw them at a NABCEP training session
last spring and while the idea is moving I
wasn’t impressed. Perhaps it’s time to start
a new thread, “Aquion batteries”.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Christopher</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:don@energysolarnow.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:don@energysolarnow.com">don@energysolarnow.com</a></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 29 January, 2016
00:49<br>
<b>To:</b> Dan Fink<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches]
LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall
Batteries</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Thanks
for sharing your experience with these
batteries, Dan.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">I
have similar SOC issues with an off-grid
customer who has the Aquion Hybrid Ion
batteries.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">It
has difficulty reaching full charge from
solar, requiring the genny to kick on each
morning even in the summer.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">This
is even worse in cold winter weather.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Your
explanation of the change in Peukert's
exponent above 80% SOC with NiFe batteries
sounds like what is happening here as
well. </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Do
you have any experience with Aquion
batteries that you can share?</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Thanks</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Don
Barch </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Energy
Solar</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:don@energysolarnow.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:don@energysolarnow.com">don@energysolarnow.com</a></a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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