[RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries, Was LiFePO4

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
We were looking at these “Aquion batteries” but once we compared the power,
voltage operating range and storage of the Unigy vs the Aquion we went with
the Unigy brand the volt range worked normally no changes to the LBCO
setings. I have Unigy applications going back close to 15 years with good
results so far. If there are customers out there that want to use any new
to the market product you may want to consider a disclaimer if there is a
problem or the company goes away just so your not holding the bag. I have
seen a few local contractors using the Aquion products but no results yet.
Jerry

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 4:30 AM, Chris Schaefer <chris at solarandwindfx.com>
wrote:

> To All,
>
>             Great insight on the lithium movement. I do am looking for
> anyone dealing with the new Aquion batteries. I’ve got a couple of
> potential clients that have inquired about them. Saw them at a NABCEP
> training session last spring and while the idea is moving I wasn’t
> impressed. Perhaps it’s time to start a new thread, “Aquion batteries”.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Christopher
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *don at energysolarnow.com
> *Sent:* Friday, 29 January, 2016 00:49
> *To:* Dan Fink
> *Cc:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall
> Batteries
>
>
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience with these batteries, Dan.
>
> I have similar SOC issues with an off-grid customer who has the Aquion
> Hybrid Ion batteries.
>
> It has difficulty reaching full charge from solar, requiring the genny to
> kick on each morning even in the summer.
>
> This is even worse in cold winter weather.
>
> Your explanation of the change in Peukert's exponent above 80% SOC with
> NiFe batteries sounds like what is happening here as well.
>
> Do you have any experience with Aquion batteries that you can share?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Don Barch
>
> Energy Solar
>
> don at energysolarnow.com
>
>
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 15:51:26 -0700
> From: Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com>
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall
> Batteries
> Message-ID:
> <CAF+3LndeD2av3Ji9CPRZi1mrw04ohFCk2UgMtu=RoWLPr3REKw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello Mark;
> My NiFes went in last March, I'm almost at a year living with them off the
> grid.
> To avoid writing a novel here I'll group my comments into Oddities,
> Advantages and Disadvantages.
>
> Advantages:
> ~ at least 25 year lifespan
> ~ 10 year warranty
> ~ Can add more parallel strings at any time/age, just drain and replace
> electrolyte of old batteries
> ~ 80% depth of discharge no problem, so can size smaller amp-hour capacity
>
> Oddities:
> ~ alkaline electrolyte, neutralize spills and clean tops with white vinegar
> ~ Specific gravity of electrolyte does not change with state of charge so a
> hydrometer is useless
> ~ Charge / discharge efficiency changes greatly with state of charge.
> Sometimes my Magnum ME-BMK amp hour meter matches the Midnite Whizbang Jr
> exactly, sometimes they are way off from each other. For ground truth, the
> state of charge vs. voltage curve from the battery manufacturer seems right
> on, not counting false readings when the batteries are not at rest for a
> couple hours.
> ~ Fooling PV MPPT charge controllers into dealing with NiFes involves
> setting a very long and high Absorb voltage
> ~ Charge efficiency is great up to 80% state of charge, but after that
> drops way off. Above 80% SOC these batteries want to see 1.65v per cell to
> really fill up. No problem for modern MPPT PV controllers, but-
> ~ Some inverter / chargers (Magnum here) freak out and shut down at 1.6v
> per cell, so the solution from the battery manufacturer is-
> ~ Run fewer cells during times of year when charging is frequent from the
> generator, put the extra cells back in the string during times of year when
> the charging is mostly PV. Sitting uncharged does not damage these "extra"
> cells.
> ~ So I am running a 10.8v battery bank right now, will bring it back to 12v
> this spring. No big deal, but does affect inverter surge capacity. Would
> not be as much of a problem at 24v or 48v.
> ~
>
> Disadvantages:
> ~ The high Absorb voltage to get that last 20% SOC efficiently bubbles
> through a lot of distilled water. My schedule is 1-2 gallons every 40 days,
> and the company sends a reminder email at that interval.
> ~ The bubbling gets the tops dirty fast. A cleaning every 40 days is about
> right.
> ~ High cost
> ~ Twiddling with string voltages semi-annually. This would not be an issue
> if most charging is from PV.
>
> My thoughts:
> My overall impression of being married to NiFes way off the grid has so far
> been favorable.In a grid standby situation, I think string voltage
> twiddling would be a non-issue, who cares about the last 20% of SOC charge
> efficiency in that situation? Off the grid with daily cycling, generator
> use, etc, I would not consider these to be batteries for off-grid
> beginners. But anyone who has been off grid for a few years with lead acid
> batteries will immediately appreciate the advantages and only occasionally
> curse the quirks of Nife.
> Plans here: Increase my PV by about 30%. Cheap and easy, no more taking
> cells in and out of the string, and less winter generator run time. Get 'em
> to 80% on genny during tough snowbound times and let PV do the rest. Figure
> out some Arduino solution for monitoring when Peukert's exponent changes
> depending on SOC. Complain to inverter/charger manufacturers to make them
> work better with NiFe.
>
> Best regards;
>
> Dan Fink
> Adjunct Professor, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor? for:
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Accredited Continuing Education Providers?
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
>
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