[RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

Gordon Woodcock gordon.woodcock at gmail.com
Thu Jan 28 12:12:33 PST 2016


You can get some pretty exotic polymers if you want to go that route. I've
used Kynar before in strongly oxidizing environments; although, I've never
used it with a PV install. <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>

On a related note, does anyone have any experience with Dura-Con or similar
products? That might be an alternative to plastic washers.

Thanks,

Gordon

>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 07:14:48 -0800
> From: Jay <jay.peltz at gmail.com>
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers
> Message-ID: <7E157003-C13F-40B9-892A-EC8044731241 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> It's part of why I asked because I'm not sure the best material.
> I always thought of Epdm as pretty soft?
>
> If you have a supplier let us know
>
> Jay
>
> > On Jan 28, 2016, at 5:00 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
> >
> > If you are going to do it, have you considered EPDM washers instead of
> plastic? Just a thought... I still wouldn't do it unless expressly endorsed
> by the manufacturer and/or engineer, but EPDM seems like a better option
> for longevity.
> >
> > ?Jason?
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Jay <jay.peltz at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Ok here is the long form.
> >>
> >> Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal
> issues.
> >> It is a custom racking design to fit his house.
> >> Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering
> for hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners
> >> Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific.
> >> This is his 2nd ( more?) house.
> >>
> >> He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said
> including that there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness.
> >>
> >> I am going to do it for him.
> >> Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's
> looking for.
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >> Peltz power.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jan 27, 2016, at 8:56 AM, Kurt Johnsen <kjenergysystems at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Jay,
> >>>
> >>> There is the consideration of voiding any engineering that is being
> relied on for your protection. If there is a failure telling the judge that
> you followed the homeowners instructions is not going to get you off the
> hook.
> >>>
> >>> Kurt
> >>> Kurt Johnsen Energy Systems
> >>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 9:43 AM, Peter Giroux <pgiroux at mindspring.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> Jay
> >>>>
> >>>>     Please keep in mind that those plastic / synthetic washers have a
> high probability of deteriorating over the next several years creating a
> new set of issues.
> >>>>
> >>>> Peter
> >>>> American Solar
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: Conrad Geyser
> >>>> To: RE-wrenches
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:36 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers
> >>>>
> >>>> Jay,
> >>>>
> >>>> I would suggest that he has a point, that the dissimilar metals do
> have a reaction.  But that the reaction is self limiting and that stainless
> fasteners with aluminum are used in marine applications albeit only with
> anodized aluminum.  Or say fine and invoice accordingly for the plastic
> washers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Conrad
> >>>> Cotuit Solar
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Conrad Geyser, Principal
> >>>> Cotuit Solar LLC
> >>>> 508-428-8442
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Another engineer, eh?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'd say no... Tell him to find another installer. 50 million Elvis
> fans, I mean PV installations, can't be wrong.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ask him if he brings his own scissors to the hairdresser? That's my
> favorite line.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jason Szumlanski
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 12:37 AM, Jay <jay.peltz at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi all
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've got a client who insists on "plastic " ( synthetic) washers
> between SS washers and the aluminum racking and modules.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm tried every angle to assure him it's not a problem to no effect.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So anybody have any recommendations about type, material, and where
> to buy?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jay
> >>>>>> Peltz power.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 11:15:59 -0700
> From: Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com>
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers
> Message-ID: <56AA5ADF.6040009 at solarray.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>
> I would use a SS washer with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket.  We use
> them on roof work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their roof
> flashings.
> Image result for neoprene washers
> https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers
>
> Thanks,
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote:
> > Hi Larry
> >
> > I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just
> > between SS and al. So the module will still be bolted directly to the
> > al rack material. I'm not too worried about the grounding, and
> > certainly not worried enough to install lay in lugs with copper to
> > each module.
> >
> > As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt.
> > But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it!
> >
> > I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this.
> > Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jay
> > Peltz power
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems
> > <larry at starlightsolar.com <mailto:larry at starlightsolar.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Jay,
> >>
> >> I?m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate
> >> the module from the rack electrically with these washers, and both
> >> are grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same potential
> >> (different length ground runs), you may be creating a path for high
> >> voltage into the array in event of a near lightning strike.
> >>
> >> Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate
> >> the bolt that puts them together from not touching the sides of the
> >> holes?  Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well.
> >>
> >> Larry Crutcher
> >> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 27, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Jay <jay.peltz at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok here is the long form.
> >>
> >> Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal
> >> issues.
> >> It is a custom racking design to fit his house.
> >> Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering
> >> for hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners
> >> Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific.
> >> This is his 2nd ( more?) house.
> >>
> >> He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said
> >> including that there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness.
> >>
> >> I am going to do it for him.
> >> Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's
> >> looking for.
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >> Peltz power.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> >>
> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> >> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> >>
> >> Change listserver email address & settings:
> >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> >>
> >> List-Archive:
> >>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
> >>
> >> List rules & etiquette:
> >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> >> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
> >>
> >> Check out or update participant bios:
> >> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> >
> > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> >
> > Change listserver email address & settings:
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 10:19:21 -0800
> From: jay <jay.peltz at gmail.com>
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers
> Message-ID: <4CDF2CA1-B688-4E14-A859-1D7474A124C6 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> My hesitation to that is the compressibility of the neoprene.
>
> One of the things I like about nylon or similar hard plastics is they
> don?t compress so you do get a ridged structure.
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
> > On Jan 28, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
> >
> > I would use a SS washer with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket.  We use
> them on roof work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their roof
> flashings.
> > <images.jpeg>
> > https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers <
> https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > R.Ray Walters
> > CTO, Solarray, Inc
> > Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> > Licensed Master Electrician
> > Solar Design Engineer
> > 303 505-8760
> > On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote:
> >> Hi Larry
> >>
> >> I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just
> between SS and al. So the module will still be bolted directly to the al
> rack material. I'm not too worried about the grounding, and certainly not
> worried enough to install lay in lugs with copper to each module.
> >>
> >> As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt.
> >> But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it!
> >>
> >> I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this.
> >> Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Jay
> >> Peltz power
> >>
> >> On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems < <mailto:
> larry at starlightsolar.com>larry at starlightsolar.com <mailto:
> larry at starlightsolar.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hey Jay,
> >>>
> >>> I?m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate the
> module from the rack electrically with these washers, and both are
> grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same potential (different
> length ground runs), you may be creating a path for high voltage into the
> array in event of a near lightning strike.
> >>>
> >>> Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate
> the bolt that puts them together from not touching the sides of the holes?
> Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well.
> >>>
> >>> Larry Crutcher
> >>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> >>>
> >>>
> >
>
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