<div dir="ltr"><div><div>You can get some pretty exotic polymers if you want to go that route. I've used Kynar before in strongly oxidizing environments; although, I've never used it with a PV install.<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><br><br></div><div>On a related note, does anyone have any experience with Dura-Con or similar products? That might be an alternative to plastic washers.<br></div><div><br></div>Thanks,<br><br></div>Gordon<br><div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
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<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 07:14:48 -0800<br>
From: Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7E157003-C13F-40B9-892A-EC8044731241@gmail.com">7E157003-C13F-40B9-892A-EC8044731241@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi Jason,<br>
<br>
It's part of why I asked because I'm not sure the best material.<br>
I always thought of Epdm as pretty soft?<br>
<br>
If you have a supplier let us know<br>
<br>
Jay<br>
<br>
> On Jan 28, 2016, at 5:00 AM, Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> If you are going to do it, have you considered EPDM washers instead of plastic? Just a thought... I still wouldn't do it unless expressly endorsed by the manufacturer and/or engineer, but EPDM seems like a better option for longevity.<br>
><br>
> ?Jason?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Ok here is the long form.<br>
>><br>
>> Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal issues.<br>
>> It is a custom racking design to fit his house.<br>
>> Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering for hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners<br>
>> Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific.<br>
>> This is his 2nd ( more?) house.<br>
>><br>
>> He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said including that there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness.<br>
>><br>
>> I am going to do it for him.<br>
>> Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's looking for.<br>
>><br>
>> Jay<br>
>><br>
>> Peltz power.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> On Jan 27, 2016, at 8:56 AM, Kurt Johnsen <<a href="mailto:kjenergysystems@gmail.com">kjenergysystems@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Jay,<br>
>>><br>
>>> There is the consideration of voiding any engineering that is being relied on for your protection. If there is a failure telling the judge that you followed the homeowners instructions is not going to get you off the hook.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Kurt<br>
>>> Kurt Johnsen Energy Systems<br>
>>><br>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 9:43 AM, Peter Giroux <<a href="mailto:pgiroux@mindspring.com">pgiroux@mindspring.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> Jay<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Please keep in mind that those plastic / synthetic washers have a high probability of deteriorating over the next several years creating a new set of issues.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Peter<br>
>>>> American Solar<br>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
>>>> From: Conrad Geyser<br>
>>>> To: RE-wrenches<br>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:36 AM<br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Jay,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I would suggest that he has a point, that the dissimilar metals do have a reaction. But that the reaction is self limiting and that stainless fasteners with aluminum are used in marine applications albeit only with anodized aluminum. Or say fine and invoice accordingly for the plastic washers.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Conrad<br>
>>>> Cotuit Solar<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Conrad Geyser, Principal<br>
>>>> Cotuit Solar LLC<br>
>>>> <a href="tel:508-428-8442" value="+15084288442">508-428-8442</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> Another engineer, eh?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I'd say no... Tell him to find another installer. 50 million Elvis fans, I mean PV installations, can't be wrong.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Ask him if he brings his own scissors to the hairdresser? That's my favorite line.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Jason Szumlanski<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 12:37 AM, Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>> Hi all<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I've got a client who insists on "plastic " ( synthetic) washers between SS washers and the aluminum racking and modules.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I'm tried every angle to assure him it's not a problem to no effect.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> So anybody have any recommendations about type, material, and where to buy?<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Thanks<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Jay<br>
>>>>>> Peltz power.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
>>>>>><br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 11:15:59 -0700<br>
From: Ray Walters <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a>><br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:56AA5ADF.6040009@solarray.com">56AA5ADF.6040009@solarray.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
I would use a SS washer with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket. We use<br>
them on roof work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their roof<br>
flashings.<br>
Image result for neoprene washers<br>
<a href="https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers</a><br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
R.Ray Walters<br>
CTO, Solarray, Inc<br>
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,<br>
Licensed Master Electrician<br>
Solar Design Engineer<br>
<a href="tel:303%20505-8760" value="+13035058760">303 505-8760</a><br>
<br>
On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote:<br>
> Hi Larry<br>
><br>
> I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just<br>
> between SS and al. So the module will still be bolted directly to the<br>
> al rack material. I'm not too worried about the grounding, and<br>
> certainly not worried enough to install lay in lugs with copper to<br>
> each module.<br>
><br>
> As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt.<br>
> But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it!<br>
><br>
> I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this.<br>
> Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers<br>
><br>
> Thanks<br>
><br>
> Jay<br>
> Peltz power<br>
><br>
> On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems<br>
> <<a href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com">larry@starlightsolar.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com">larry@starlightsolar.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Hey Jay,<br>
>><br>
>> I?m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate<br>
>> the module from the rack electrically with these washers, and both<br>
>> are grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same potential<br>
>> (different length ground runs), you may be creating a path for high<br>
>> voltage into the array in event of a near lightning strike.<br>
>><br>
>> Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate<br>
>> the bolt that puts them together from not touching the sides of the<br>
>> holes? Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well.<br>
>><br>
>> Larry Crutcher<br>
>> Starlight Solar Power Systems<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Jan 27, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Ok here is the long form.<br>
>><br>
>> Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal<br>
>> issues.<br>
>> It is a custom racking design to fit his house.<br>
>> Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering<br>
>> for hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners<br>
>> Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific.<br>
>> This is his 2nd ( more?) house.<br>
>><br>
>> He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said<br>
>> including that there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness.<br>
>><br>
>> I am going to do it for him.<br>
>> Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's<br>
>> looking for.<br>
>><br>
>> Jay<br>
>><br>
>> Peltz power.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
>><br>
>> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 10:19:21 -0800<br>
From: jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4CDF2CA1-B688-4E14-A859-1D7474A124C6@gmail.com">4CDF2CA1-B688-4E14-A859-1D7474A124C6@gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
My hesitation to that is the compressibility of the neoprene.<br>
<br>
One of the things I like about nylon or similar hard plastics is they don?t compress so you do get a ridged structure.<br>
<br>
jay<br>
<br>
peltz power<br>
> On Jan 28, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Ray Walters <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I would use a SS washer with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket. We use them on roof work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their roof flashings.<br>
> <images.jpeg><br>
> <a href="https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers</a> <<a href="https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers</a>><br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
> R.Ray Walters<br>
> CTO, Solarray, Inc<br>
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,<br>
> Licensed Master Electrician<br>
> Solar Design Engineer<br>
> <a href="tel:303%20505-8760" value="+13035058760">303 505-8760</a><br>
> On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote:<br>
>> Hi Larry<br>
>><br>
>> I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just between SS and al. So the module will still be bolted directly to the al rack material. I'm not too worried about the grounding, and certainly not worried enough to install lay in lugs with copper to each module.<br>
>><br>
>> As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt.<br>
>> But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it!<br>
>><br>
>> I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this.<br>
>> Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks<br>
>><br>
>> Jay<br>
>> Peltz power<br>
>><br>
>> On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems < <mailto:<a href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com">larry@starlightsolar.com</a>><a href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com">larry@starlightsolar.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com">larry@starlightsolar.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Hey Jay,<br>
>>><br>
>>> I?m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate the module from the rack electrically with these washers, and both are grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same potential (different length ground runs), you may be creating a path for high voltage into the array in event of a near lightning strike.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate the bolt that puts them together from not touching the sides of the holes? Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Larry Crutcher<br>
>>> Starlight Solar Power Systems<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
><br>
<br>
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