[RE-wrenches] to flash or not to flash

Ray Walters ray at solarray.com
Fri Aug 7 10:34:20 PDT 2015 

My opinion is that if the L foot has enough surface area it constitutes 
a flashing, and that large flashings can actually cause more damage to 
the roof than they prevent.
I also agree that an attachement doesn't constitute a penetration. I 
just finished an install on a metal roof with hundreds of screw holes.  
We added a few more screw holes, and ours have 20 times the sealant 
surface area.  We did run a 1" conduit through the roof, and since it 
was an actual penetration, we used a very expensive flexible boot flashing.
Personally, I think we need about a 3"x3" or 4" x 4" L foot with a 
double stick butyl tape on the bottom, and all will be well.
I realize that the OP was referring to asphalt, but I will flash other 
roof types that don't do well with L feet ( like shake).

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 8/6/2015 12:59 PM, Conrad Geyser wrote:
> Hi fellow Wrenches,
>
> Flashing -
>
> We have ~30 years experience with ~700 systems dating back to 1980 
> here in the Northeast primarily on asphalt shingles.
>
> Standard attachment method on these historic systems and currently for 
> us is a lagged foot bedded in silicone.  We've seen no leaks including 
> the historic systems as long as there was solid attachment to framing 
> and the foot size was big enough to not crush the roofing.
>
> Our current technique is to use a single lag through the center of a 
> 1.5" x 5" foot.  Bed the foot 100% and run the lag in coated as well. 
>   Fillet all "gush out" (you can look these terms up  :  >). Don't use 
> GE silicone below 45F - it will never cure.
>
> For aspahlt here in the NE, I feel as though the flashing products are 
> OK but actually create more roof liability as they require the 
> releasing of shingles at a minimum.
>
> Conrad Geyser
> Cotuit Solar LLC
> NAPCEP PV and Thermal
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Matt Partymiller 
> <matt at solar-energy-solutions.com 
> <mailto:matt at solar-energy-solutions.com>> wrote:
>
>     Daniel,
>
>     My answer is to flash until others prove me wrong.
>
>     I am in the same position you are, speaking to the same
>     manufacturers you
>     are, and probably dealing with the same low competitor pricing you
>     are.
>     These products sure sound tempting.
>
>     Over the past decade I have probably removed a dozen 80's era hot
>     air or
>     hot water systems that were directly attached to roofs (installed by
>     others).  In every instance the roof was a complete mess and
>     required deck
>     replacement.  I now tell homeowners just to contact a roofer and
>     have them
>     dispose of the collectors in the process of re-roofing - we will
>     come out
>     after the new roof is in place.
>
>     I think you summed up the sealant problem quite well.  I sell my
>     systems
>     as a 25 year product.  I am not satisfied that butyl is a 25 year
>     answer.
>     Until someone convinces me otherwise, I will relate as much to my
>     customers and proceed with proper flashings.
>
>     Good poll.
>
>     Matt
>
>
>     Matthew Partymiller
>     Solar Energy Solutions LLC
>     (877) 312-7456 <tel:%28877%29%20312-7456>
>     matt at solar-energy-solutions.com
>     <mailto:matt at solar-energy-solutions.com>
>
>
>     On Thu, August 6, 2015 12:47 pm, Daniel Young wrote:
>     > Writing the subject above, it seems like I've heard this
>     question on the
>     > wrench list before, but I could not find it in my old email
>     archives. Feel
>     >  free to pint me back to the old discussion if it's there.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > I've been using a flashing based roof attachment for 8+yrs now
>     (quick
>     > mount or similar). Now we are looking at Rail-less systems 
>     (quick rack is
>     > a good example). There is also a non-flashed rail-less racking from
>     > roof-tech http://roof-tech.us/ . I've always been of the opinion
>     that
>     > simply crushing some sealant/gasket onto an asphalt shingle work
>     fine at
>     > first (the test data from roof-tech is impressive), but would be
>     an issue
>     > 10+yrs down the
>     > road (thermal expansion movement, freeze/thaw, etc). I can make
>     a good
>     > waterproof seal at first by just slathering some butyl/silicone
>     to an
>     > L-foot
>     > and cranking it down on the shingles, but that practice really
>     disappeared
>     >  8+yrs ago.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Maybe consider this a Poll: (to flash, or not to flash)
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > With Regards,
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Daniel Young,
>     >
>     >
>     > NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
>     >
>     >
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