[RE-wrenches] Generac QT series
Mac Lewis
maclewis1 at gmail.com
Tue Jul 14 18:45:02 PDT 2015
Wrenches,
Thanks for these productive responses. I will attempt to get an instrument
that can examine the current waveform. I want to understand power factor
possibility a bit more. I neglected to mention that during the
oscilloscope tests, we turned off the AC output of the inverter so the only
loading of the generator would have been the charger on the Magnum. The
Magnum has power factor corrected charger, so I am assuming that when I
measure the power factor, it should be near unity.
I was talking to an electrical engineering friend about it and he said that
most generators have a pf of about 0.8. This confuses me because I thought
current (and hence power factor) is determined by the load. How does the
power source influence power factor (assuming we aren't near its current
production limit)?
Thanks in advance
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:43 AM, <Jarmo.Venalainen at schneider-electric.com>
wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I'm assuming the oscilloscope waveforms are voltages. If so, they don't
> look bad.
>
> I would get a current for the oscilloscope and and measure the L1, L2 and
> Neutral currents. That should reveal what is going on.
>
> JARMO
>
> _____________________________________________________________________________________
>
> * Jarmo Venalainen* | * Schneider Electric ** | Xantrex Brand* |
> *CANADA* | *Sales Application Engineer*
> * Phone:* +604-422-2528 | *Tech Support:* 800-670-0707 | *Mobile:*
> +604-505-0291
> * Email:* *jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com*
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> From: Mac Lewis <maclewis1 at gmail.com> To: RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>, Date: 07/14/2015 06:01 AM Subject: Re:
> [RE-wrenches] Generac QT series Sent by: "RE-wrenches" <
> re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Hello wrenches,
>
> Last December I posted about a Magnum 4448 and a Generac 22 kW generator
> that aren't working well together. The symptom was that the Magnum
> transformer would overheat very quickly, even at very low charge rates (<2A
> DC). We have verified 120/240 VAC operation of the generator.
>
> We were able to get up to the site with an oscilloscope and see if we
> could find anything out. I've attached some photos of the oscilloscope
> output. I don't have anything to compare it to, so I'd like to see if
> anyone has some insight into why this may be occurring.
> The 4 photos are as follows (all photos L1-L2):
> 1. Generator Waveform No Load: Unloaded Generator Voltage Waveform
> 2. Charger 1st Connected: AC Input Voltage waveform immediately after
> charger connects
> 3. Steady State Operation Editted: AC Input Voltage waveform after about
> 10 seconds, this waveform continues until transformer overheats (in about 2
> minutes) Note the disturbances.
> 4. Zoomed In Ripple: Closer view of the disturbances noted in #3.
>
> We have tried replacing the Magnum with an identical unit, and we had the
> same issue. We also tried a Honda 6500 with atrocious voltage and
> frequency regulation and it worked fine with the Magnum. Since I did not
> sell him the generator, the easy out is to replace the generator. However,
> there is some custom exhaust duct work and it will be much more expensive
> to replace the generator than to try a new inverter.
>
> I think that over all it is preferable for the client to replace the
> inverter/charger with a different brand. I have no problem doing that
> except that I'd like to be relatively sure that this is anomalous behavior
> between the Magnum and the Generac and not a generator issue. What are the
> chances that I'd have the same issue with a different inverter? What might
> cause this? All voltage and frequency measurements have been perfect with
> the Generac.
>
> Your comments or thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 11:15 AM, RE Ellison <*reellison at gmail.com*
> <reellison at gmail.com>> wrote:
> If memory serves me correctly and this is the off grid Generac they are
> available as a 120 volt and it takes a new breaker and rewiring to get 120
> / 240 out of them
>
> I run into this in the past they actually had it wired for 240 into a
> balancing transformer to feed 120 into the inverter
>
> We could've just left it at 120 volt
>
> Later,
> Bob ellison
>
>
> Bob Ellison
>
> On Dec 16, 2014, at 11:33 AM, "Baxter, Gary" <*gbaxter at sensata.com*
> <gbaxter at sensata.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Mac,
> Jay just had the same issue and it was 120v from the gen instead of
> 120/240. The inverter was charging using half the windings causing it to
> Overtemp.
>
> Check the 60A breakers on the side of the inverter. Also make sure to
> remove the wires from the input terminal block before measuring voltage as
> the inverter will make 120v look like 120/240v at the terminals.
>
> If the generator is 3 Phase it won't work with this inverter unless you
> only use one leg. This will work but you will need to turn the charge rate
> to 50% in order to prevent Overtemp. Sometimes it works as high as 70%.
>
> Gary Baxter
> Product Manager
> Magnum/Dimensions
>
> On Dec 15, 2014, at 12:12 PM, Mac Lewis <*maclewis1 at gmail.com*
> <maclewis1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi jarmo,
>
> We have verified this is split phase 120/240. My multimeter gets 120 L-N
> and 240 L-L.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Dec 15, 2014 10:25 AM, <*Jarmo.Venalainen at schneider-electric.com*
> <Jarmo.Venalainen at schneider-electric.com>> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> The Generac QT02224GNAX ships as a three-phase 120/208 VAC. I believe the
> Magnum is a 120/240 VAC.
>
> JARMO
>
> _____________________________________________________________________________________
>
> * Jarmo Venalainen* | * Schneider Electric ** | Solar Business* |
> *CANADA* | *Training & Development Specialist - Senior*
> * Phone:* *+604-422-2528* <%2B604-422-2528> | *Fax:* *+604-420-1591*
> <%2B604-420-1591> | *Mobile:* *+604-505-0291* <%2B604-505-0291>
> * Email:* *jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com*
> <jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com> | *Site:** www.SEsolar.com*
> <http://www.sesolar.com/> | *Address:* 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC
> V5G4M1
>
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> *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
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>
> From: Mac Lewis <*maclewis1 at gmail.com* <maclewis1 at gmail.com>> To: RE-wrenches
> <*re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org* <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>,
> Date: 12/15/2014 05:52 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Generac QT series Sent
> by: "RE-wrenches" <*re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org*
> <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Hello wrenches,
>
> We have a newly installed system that has a 22 kW Generac Quiet Source
> QT02224GNAX with a Magnum MS4448-PAE. When we start the generator, the
> Magnum's internal transformer temperature climbs to overtemp (240F) within
> a 2 minutes. The batteries are being floated at the time, and haven't seen
> more than 5A coming out of the generator. We swapped the Magnum out, and
> we have the exact same issue. We then got a job-site gas generator 6500W
> and ran it. No problem whatsoever. The problem appears to be with the
> Generac, or with the interaction between the Generac & the Magnum. I
> didn't have a scope on site but the fluke multimeter doesn't detect
> anything wrong with the voltage or frequency coming from the Generac.
>
> Has anyone had issues with the Generac QT? Anyone paired one with a
> Magnum PAE before? I want to get my scope up there and look for triplen
> harmonics, but I'm not sure how to filter these out. Any references on how
> to effectively do that is appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
>
>
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> --
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>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
>
>
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> ______________________________________________________________________[attachment
> "Generator Waveform No Load.jpg" deleted by Jarmo
> Venalainen/Canada/Schneider] [attachment "Charger 1st Connected.jpg"
> deleted by Jarmo Venalainen/Canada/Schneider] [attachment "Steady State
> Operation Editted.jpg" deleted by Jarmo Venalainen/Canada/Schneider]
> [attachment "Zoomed In Ripple.jpg" deleted by Jarmo
> Venalainen/Canada/Schneider]
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--
Mac Lewis
*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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