[RE-wrenches] Morningstar new battery backup , more comments and opinions

Wed Jun 3 14:16:38 PDT 2015

All –

On a related note to the one-day battery backup install, you may have seen
Solarcity’s description of their battery backup offering. They are keeping
the critical loads and scope very limited:

http://www.solarcity.com/residential/backup-power-supply

SolarCity will provide backup power for up to four (4) electrical circuits
rated at 120 VAC and up to 20 amps each. The battery backup system can
power up to 1,900 watts of backup loads at any given time. Typical backup
loads include refrigerators and other kitchen equipment, lights, outlets
that power computers, phones and Internet routers, and home security
systems. We will never offer backup to circuits greater than 20 amps
including most pool pumps, well pumps, electric heaters, electric water
heaters, air conditioners, and hot tubs. Eligible loads must be located in
the same electrical panel being used to connect your solar PV system at the
time we install. If we cannot provide backup power to the four (4) 20 amp,
120 VAC circuits that you request due to access or electrical constraints,
you may cancel your battery backup installation at no cost to you.
Financing terms vary by location and are not available in all areas. For
Lease and PPA backup battery customers, $1,000 deposit due upon contract
signing. Balance of $4,000, exclusive of taxes and fees, due upon
installation. Taxes and fees vary by location. SolarCity Corporation will
repair or replace broken warranted components.

Best,

August

*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Steve Bell
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 03, 2015 1:42 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Morningstar new battery backup , more comments
and opinions

Hello William,

I had not seen the video prior to your posting. I totally agree that a one
day install of a complete battery back-up retro-fit is completely
unrealistic. Perhaps 4 to 7 days, depending on the complexity and size of
the retro-fit. Yes, one day might suffice to install and wire just the
TS-MPPT-600-TR, but creating a sub-panel, installing and wiring the
battery-based inverter and the battery bank will require significantly more
time.

I have spoken with our marketing department, and they will be addressing
this misrepresentation.

I believe all our printed literature for the TS-MPPT-600 is accurate and
does not contain any misrepresentations.

I am sorry for the unrealistic expectation that the video currently
creates. Unrealistic expectations are never good for the industry.

Respectfully,

Steve Bell

Technical Support

Morningstar Corporation

sbell at morningstarcorp.com

www.morningstarcorp.com

On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 9:03 AM, <william at millersolar.com> wrote:

Chris:

The market Morningstar is going for is the customers with non-battery,
grid-tie only inverters.  If you then add the Morningstar product and a
whole lot of other items and a lot of labor, you can have battery backup.
If you already have a complete GTBB system, such as you describe in your
home, you cannot benefit from this product.

I viewed the demo video and I find it disingenuous.  The block diagram
presented shows a battery bank, a batter inverter and a critical loads
sub-panel.  The verbal description they offer of this system and
interconnection is: “some wiring.”  This is a vast understatement in most
cases.  Adding a sub-panel and segregating loads is major surgery in a
majority of homes, not to mention creating a safe storage container for
batteries, interconnecting 600VDC PV feeders, AC Feeders, etc., etc.  To
pre-bias the customer by saying such a project can be completed in one day
makes it really hard to present a realistic bid for what can be a pretty
significant project.  I liken this to the Tesla hoopla about how easy it is
to screw a small box to your garage wall and you will have endless power
without reliance on the grid.  It’s a lot of over-simplification to sell
product, and a disservice to the installing community.

I’d like to see a response from Morningstar on this point.

William Miller

*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Chris Mason
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 03, 2015 5:03 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Morningstar new battery backup , more comments
and opinions

I'm having trouble understanding the application for this product. I have
the tristar 600V CC in my own home.

If I want to have backup and also export to the grid, the Outback radian
does that without the need to change anything over.  WHy would you want to
have the Radian as a backup AND have a grid tied inverter, and have to
change over a manual switch to provide power to the CC? What am I missing?

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Tom Lane <tom at ecs-solar.com> wrote:

I would appreciate more opinions and comments on the new Morningstar
Controller for Grid connected systems .  I developed a simple transfer
switch back for this type of application back when Grid Connected systems
were 48 volts . This seems like a great idea for high voltage Grid
Connected System . Tom

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