[RE-wrenches] How Is Rapid Shut-Down Not A Farse...

[Jerry Shafer]

Mark and the wrenches group
You do have a point, in the many years of my PV life, we have had three
building fires not at all related to the PV, on the first, all of the
insulation on the wires inside the metal conduit was gone, the at the time
required AC disconnect was turned off, and after all was over we were
called in to remove our system for the re-construction at which time I
found a glove print on the conduit in the attic, it was wet, smoky and had
live wires inside shorted and all that was required was a solid ground
which it had and worked perfect.
The second fire was the result of someone else and started under the home,
right next to our EMT conduit, here they were able to turn off DC
disconnect at the array which was on the ground away from the home and the
conduit was properly grounded. again this protected the firefighters which
I support.
The third fire was to far back recall to much but again it was not PV
related.
I hesitate to say this but all the wigets and waldos will not protect
against bad installs and some non NEC following related repairs, sure
shutting down the array on the roof may help, but the first time there is a
system out there that does not work some guy may just go and bypass it,
hell its a cheap fix. now who thinks they are protected and they are not,
bad deal.
We all need to remember these systems requires power and we are in the
industry of reducing power demands not increasing them. home owners may in
time disconnect it them selves for this same reason.
We need more KIS-S
Jerry


On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Dave Click <daveclick at fsec.ucf.edu> wrote:

> Mark-
>
> 690.56(C) provides the placard you're looking for and 690.56(B) tells the
> first responder where that 690.12 switch is, right?
>
> For 2017 there are a couple of proposals out there. One is trying to
> better educate that first responder (quickly!) as to what hazards exist.
> Another is clarifying some of the language for 690.12 such that we continue
> to have [better] array-level shutdown. Another is changing 690.12 to
> [basically] module-level shutdown, which has been signed onto by the IAFF,
> insurance companies, and... some module-level electronics vendors.
>
> We've installed many, many rooftop systems but we're only about 0.1% done
> with them. Regardless of how 690.12 changes, I think that in the next few
> years we'll all be revisiting every system we've ever worked on to make
> sure there's enough labeling to inform firefighters about the hazards. I'm
> curious how we're going to do that so that a 2027 firefighter can quickly
> distinguish between 2014's Rapid Shutdown, 2017's Even Rapider Shutdown,
> 2020's BlockOutTheSun Shutdown, 2014's Rapid Shutdown That Actually Still
> Works, 2011's System That Will Only Shock You If You Cut Through a Module,
> and 2005's Never-Code-Compliant system that incorrectly has a "Rapid
> Shutdown" label on it because the homeowner noticed that their neighbor had
> one. Somehow we need to make sure firefighters know exactly what they're up
> against.
>
> Non-farcically,
> DKC
>
>
>
> On 2015/2/5 20:08, Mark Frye wrote:
>
>> ...without a mandatory "Stop" switch co-located with the service meter
>> or main breaker?
>>
>> How many roof top systems have been installed to date? Many, many, many,
>> many.
>>
>> OK ,now I am a first responder showing up at a home that is on fire. How
>> do I know whether or not the DC has been installed such that it provided
>> the protections afforded by 690.12? I don't. Because it is not require
>> for systems conforming to 690.12 to look any different to me than those
>> that do not.
>>
>> So does the "stop" switch become the new "fire fighters club" logo? If
>> you have the switch the FD will save your home, if you don't they will
>> let it burn down, even if you have a 690.12 compliant system that does
>> not include an "initiator switch"?
>>
>> Mark Frye
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
>> org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20150205/72657f88/attachment-0002.html>