[RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting with Outback VFX Off Grid
Ray Walters
ray at solarray.com
Mon Dec 1 07:18:41 PST 2014
Have you tried it without the balancing transformer? You described that
the voltage waveform looked good, but the current waveform had
distortion. I would take the X 240 out of the system, and see what
happens. I hardly ever use the balancing transformers, and I never let
the inverters go into search mode anymore. With search mode set to
actually work with all loads, it usually pulls about 10 to 15 watts/
inverter, while actual run is 20 watts. It just never was worth all the
extra hassle and cost of the X 240, IMHO.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 12/1/2014 7:57 AM, dan at foxfire-energy.com wrote:
> Yes, running on gen set was the first thing we tried. Breakers were
> off on all units initially. The first unit we lit tripped out on some
> random error, but the other two lit up fine. After a few min of
> breaker off, the first one tried to light up, but the genny couldn't
> handle all three at once (80's vintage 5k propane Onan -- the most we
> could get out of it without pulling the voltage out of spec was 10A
> @240vac).
>
> We switched back over to the RE system and everything ran just fine.
> We measured 14aac at full draw. That's when we discovered the units
> all run properly (on RE) if you either leave them on all the time with
> the temp turned down or briefly turn them off (with the remote
> controller) for a short time. Not sure, but it looks like somewhere
> around 4 hours of off from the controller is when the comm/relight
> problem happens. Mitsubishi is now talking about using a different
> controller to reduce the standby draw (So they can stay on all the
> time), but it sounds like they'd still like to blame the RE system.
> I'm still thinking bad sushi.
>
> db
>
> Dan Brown
> Foxfire Energy Corp.
> Renewable Energy Systems
> (802)-483-2564
> www.Foxfire-Energy.com <http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com>
> NABCEP #092907-44
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting with Outback
> VFX Off Grid
> From: jay peltz <jay at asis.com <mailto:jay at asis.com>>
> Date: Sun, November 30, 2014 8:12 pm
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>
> HI Dan,
>
> Have you tried this on a different power source, say generator etc?
> You might also try a different inverter brand just to make sure.
>
> I once had radio noise from a magnum, some years ago. Tried
> everything, in the end, I swapped it for a VFX and the problem was
> gone, customer was happy.
>
> And I'm going to agree with Mitsubishi, most likely the inverter.
> The OB/FX just isn't compatible with some machines.
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 4:29 PM, <dan at foxfire-energy.com
> <mailto:dan at foxfire-energy.com>> <dan at foxfire-energy.com
> <mailto:dan at foxfire-energy.com>> wrote:
>
>> We're still not at the bottom of it. Seems Mitsubishi is doing
>> their level best to finger the RE system. Yes, the current wave
>> form (On a Fluke 43 Power Analyzer) has a shoulder.. looks down
>> right funky on one inverter thru the X240 until the 2nd inverter
>> lights. Current also looks funkular when each mini split is lit
>> (Pulses).. Still, I'm thinking it's more about how the mini
>> splits toke power rather than how the Outbacks produce power. The
>> voltage waveforms look fine.
>> the other chin scratcher is that it seems this model of mini
>> split has only been around since spring. There might be a model
>> specific cold weather setup the AC folks missed. Something about
>> a jumper on a control board that needs to be snipped to enable
>> the compressor heater.
>>
>> We also noticed that all mini splits work just fine if you leave
>> them on and turned down.. But that kind of power draw for folks
>> that have been loving off grid since 92 is just unacceptable.
>> (these guys were turning off GFI breakers because they could see
>> a draw).
>>
>> Either way, the power system itself is working fine as is
>> everything else in the house. And no, the new power system has
>> not kept the lawn mower from starting or the dog from eating the
>> cats food.
>>
>> Peace. db
>>
>> Dan Brown
>> Foxfire Energy Corp.
>> Renewable Energy Systems
>> (802)-483-2564
>> www.Foxfire-Energy.com <http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com/>
>> NABCEP #092907-44
>> <sigimg0.png>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting
>> with Outback
>> VFX Off Grid
>> From: Wayne Irwin <wayne at pureenergysolar.com
>> <mailto:wayne at pureenergysolar.com>>
>> Date: Tue, October 21, 2014 8:52 pm
>> To: Wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>>
>> We have found that the mini-splits have only had issues while
>> gen sets are running.
>> In some cases (when on genset) the mini's will run
>> irregularly or flash a fault status.
>>
>> Rather than try to have the mini's run on gen power we
>> install dc chargers to charge batts from gen power.
>>
>> My thought is that the AC Installer either has something
>> wrong or the Mitsubishi's have very tight parameters.
>> Be sure that the wiring from the inside unit to the outside
>> unit are correct. Should be only three wires (plus gnd). Very
>> easy to check.
>>
>> Possible alternative solution would be look into the cost of
>> installing a Gree since they are the least expensive.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne Irwin,
>> President
>> License #CVC56695
>> State Licensed Solar Contractor
>> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
>> Wayne at PureEnergySolar.com <mailto:PureEnergySolar at hotmail.com>
>> http://PureEnergySolar.com <http://PureEnergySolar.com/>
>> http://SolarChargingStation.net
>> <https://solarchargingstation.net/>
>> 352 377-6527 Office
>> 352 336-3299 Fax
>> 352 316-1637 Cell
>>
>> The Sun Is Always Shining!
>>
>> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar
>> Confidential. If you are not the intended recipient and have
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>> prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and
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>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 11:23:31 -0600
>> From: ray at solarray.com <mailto:ray at solarray.com>
>> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting
>> with Outback VFX Off Grid
>>
>> The Outback is not a perfect Sinewave. It still has tiny
>> steps in the wave, and when electronics have a problem, its
>> usually with the wave form as it crosses zero voltage .
>> Instead of being instantaneous, it has a few milliseconds of
>> time the wave is at the zero crossing, which can drive some
>> electronics nuts. I don't understand the issue beyond that,
>> but apparently the electronics use the zero crossing for
>> timers and synchronizing, and they're looking for an instant
>> "click", not a smear.
>> Do the heat pumps work with the generator? Even though
>> generators can have more harmonic distortion, they do usually
>> have a clean zero crossing.
>> If this is the case, I'm afraid I don't have a cure. We used
>> to use capacitors, but Dan from Exeltech just poo pooed that
>> fix in another recent thread, so I don't have any other
>> tricks up my sleeve.
>>
>> R.Ray Walters
>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>> Licensed Master Electrician
>> Solar Design Engineer
>> 303 505-8760
>>
>> On 10/21/2014 8:54 AM, dan at foxfire-energy.com
>> <mailto:dan at foxfire-energy.com> wrote:
>>
>> Anyone else had issues with Mitsubishi Mini Split heat
>> pumps fighting with Outback VFX off grid inverters?
>> Everything is brand new. Outback VFX7248, three separate
>> heat pumps. The heat pumps shut down reporting multiple /
>> confusing input commands. The heat pump guys want to
>> blame the power system. I'm thinking bad Sushi. Thanks db
>>
>>
>> Dan Brown
>> Foxfire Energy Corp.
>> Renewable Energy Systems
>> (802)-483-2564
>> www.Foxfire-Energy.com <http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com/>
>> NABCEP #092907-44
>> <ATT00001.png>
>>
>>
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