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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Have you tried it without the balancing
transformer? You described that the voltage waveform looked good,
but the current waveform had distortion. I would take the X 240
out of the system, and see what happens. I hardly ever use the
balancing transformers, and I never let the inverters go into
search mode anymore. With search mode set to actually work with
all loads, it usually pulls about 10 to 15 watts/ inverter, while
actual run is 20 watts. It just never was worth all the extra
hassle and cost of the X 240, IMHO.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 12/1/2014 7:57 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dan@foxfire-energy.com">dan@foxfire-energy.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141201075751.720a661d8db719b1f2ad39509c9edaa3.d2638c08ae.wbe@email14.secureserver.net"
type="cite"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000;
font-size:10pt;">
<div>Yes, running on gen set was the first thing we tried.
Breakers were off on all units initially. The first unit we
lit tripped out on some random error, but the other two lit up
fine. After a few min of breaker off, the first one tried to
light up, but the genny couldn't handle all three at once
(80's vintage 5k propane Onan -- the most we could get out of
it without pulling the voltage out of spec was 10A @240vac).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> We switched back over to the RE system and everything ran
just fine. We measured 14aac at full draw. That's when we
discovered the units all run properly (on RE) if you either
leave them on all the time with the temp turned down or
briefly turn them off (with the remote controller) for a short
time. Not sure, but it looks like somewhere around 4 hours of
off from the controller is when the comm/relight problem
happens. Mitsubishi is now talking about using a different
controller to reduce the standby draw (So they can stay on all
the time), but it sounds like they'd still like to blame the
RE system. I'm still thinking bad sushi.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>db<br>
</div>
<div><br>
Dan Brown<br>
Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>
Renewable Energy Systems<br>
(802)-483-2564<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>
NABCEP #092907-44</div>
<div><img id="sigimg0" title="signature image"
src="cid:part2.00080401.04040909@solarray.com" alt=""
border="0"></div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1" style="border-left:
2px solid blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px;
font-size:10pt; color:black; font-family:verdana;">
<div id="wmQuoteWrapper">
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting
with Outback<br>
VFX Off Grid<br>
From: jay peltz <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jay@asis.com">jay@asis.com</a>><br>
Date: Sun, November 30, 2014 8:12 pm<br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<br>
HI Dan,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have you tried this on a different power source, say
generator etc?</div>
<div>You might also try a different inverter brand just to
make sure.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I once had radio noise from a magnum, some years ago.
Tried everything, in the end, I swapped it for a VFX and
the problem was gone, customer was happy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And I'm going to agree with Mitsubishi, most likely the
inverter.</div>
<div>The OB/FX just isn't compatible with some machines.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>jay</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>peltz power</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Nov 30, 2014, at 4:29 PM, <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
href="mailto:dan@foxfire-energy.com">dan@foxfire-energy.com</a>>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
href="mailto:dan@foxfire-energy.com">dan@foxfire-energy.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite" style="border-left: blue 2px
solid; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px;">
<div><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000;
font-size:10pt;">
<div>We're still not at the bottom of it. Seems
Mitsubishi is doing their level best to finger
the RE system. Yes, the current wave form (On a
Fluke 43 Power Analyzer) has a shoulder.. looks
down right funky on one inverter thru the X240
until the 2nd inverter lights. Current also
looks funkular when each mini split is lit
(Pulses).. Still, I'm thinking it's more about
how the mini splits toke power rather than how
the Outbacks produce power. The voltage
waveforms look fine.<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>the other chin scratcher is that it seems
this model of mini split has only been around
since spring. There might be a model specific
cold weather setup the AC folks missed.
Something about a jumper on a control board that
needs to be snipped to enable the compressor
heater.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We also noticed that all mini splits work
just fine if you leave them on and turned down..
But that kind of power draw for folks that have
been loving off grid since 92 is just
unacceptable. (these guys were turning off GFI
breakers because they could see a draw).<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Either way, the power system itself is
working fine as is everything else in the house.
And no, the new power system has not kept the
lawn mower from starting or the dog from eating
the cats food.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Peace. db<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dan Brown<br>
Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>
Renewable Energy Systems<br>
(802)-483-2564<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com/">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>
NABCEP #092907-44</div>
<div><span><sigimg0.png></span></div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1"
style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left:
8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt;
color:black; font-family:verdana;">
<div id="wmQuoteWrapper"> -------- Original
Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini
Split fighting with Outback<br>
VFX Off Grid<br>
From: Wayne Irwin <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
href="mailto:wayne@pureenergysolar.com">wayne@pureenergysolar.com</a>><br>
Date: Tue, October 21, 2014 8:52 pm<br>
To: Wrenches <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:12pt;"
color="#000000" size="3">We have found
that the mini-splits have only had issues
while gen sets are running. <br>
In some cases (when on genset) the mini's
will run irregularly or flash a fault
status.<br>
<br>
Rather than try to have the mini's run on
gen power we install dc chargers to charge
batts from gen power.<br>
<br>
My thought is that the AC Installer either
has something wrong or the Mitsubishi's
have very tight parameters.<br>
Be sure that the wiring from the inside
unit to the outside unit are correct.
Should be only three wires (plus gnd).
Very easy to check.<br>
<br>
Possible alternative solution would be
look into the cost of installing a Gree
since they are the least expensive.<br>
<br>
</font><br>
<br>
<font style="font-size:12pt;"
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<hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Tue, 21 Oct
2014 11:23:31 -0600<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini
Split fighting with Outback VFX Off Grid<br>
<br>
<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix">The
Outback is not a perfect Sinewave. It
still has tiny steps in the wave, and
when electronics have a problem, its
usually with the wave form as it crosses
zero voltage . Instead of being
instantaneous, it has a few milliseconds
of time the wave is at the zero
crossing, which can drive some
electronics nuts. I don't understand
the issue beyond that, but apparently
the electronics use the zero crossing
for timers and synchronizing, and
they're looking for an instant "click",
not a smear. <br>
Do the heat pumps work with the
generator? Even though generators can
have more harmonic distortion, they do
usually have a clean zero crossing.<br>
If this is the case, I'm afraid I don't
have a cure. We used to use capacitors,
but Dan from Exeltech just poo pooed
that fix in another recent thread, so I
don't have any other tricks up my
sleeve.<br>
<pre class="ecxmoz-signature">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 10/21/2014 8:54 AM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:dan@foxfire-energy.com">dan@foxfire-energy.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141021075412.720a661d8db719b1f2ad39509c9edaa3.7eec600f56.wbe@email14.secureserver.net"><span
style="font-family:Verdana;color:#000000;font-size:10pt;">
<div>Anyone else had issues with
Mitsubishi Mini Split heat pumps
fighting with Outback VFX off grid
inverters? Everything is brand new.
Outback VFX7248, three separate heat
pumps. The heat pumps shut down
reporting multiple / confusing input
commands. The heat pump guys want to
blame the power system. I'm thinking
bad Sushi. Thanks db<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
Dan Brown<br>
Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>
Renewable Energy Systems<br>
(802)-483-2564<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com/"
target="_blank">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>
NABCEP #092907-44</div>
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