[RE-wrenches] Warranty replacements

Sat Oct 18 05:34:54 PDT 2014

We are also in the generator business, as a Generac dealer. If you want to
get an idea of how a manufacturer should handle warranty, Generac's model
is worth a look. We get paid by Generac to perform warranty repairs,
regardless of whether we sold the unit or not. This allows Generac to sell
units through Lowes and Home Depot without those stores having a service
department.
Generac gives us a table of repair allowances that detail how much they
will pay us for the repairs. They also repay the parts costs. of course.
A Generac dealer is required to perform warranty repairs as part of the
dealer agreement. The customer is always covered by a dealer.
I have found Generac willing to replace parts and service problems even
long after the warranty, especially on commercial units.

On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Jason Szumlanski <jason at szumlanski.com>
wrote:

> As our industry matures, we need to figure this out, and the best way, in
> my opinion, is to take cues from other industries. The main issue is
> unreasonably long and over-promising warranties. As manufacturers race to
> find their footing, there tends to be an easy way to compete by just
> lengthening warranties. If you can't compete on cost or technology, just
> offer a better/longer warranty. That is ultimately not good for
> manufacturers or dealers, as consumers are disappointed when products fail
> "prematurely." Reasonable warranties with assurances of excellent initial
> quality are critical, especially as the industry is still budding. However,
> the race for the longest warranty is a losing battle. I understand why it
> is important in the beginning, but we need to return to reality, setting
> consumers (and financiers) up for realistic expectations of O&M costs.
>
> Look at the HVAC industry, which really matured here in Florida in the
> 80's. A/C service is a thriving competitive industry, and consumers know
> what to expect. You can get a service agreement or a la carte service, and
> just about everyone charges a diagnostic fee for work - even warranty work.
> It has just come to be expected that there WILL be maintenance costs if you
> want an HVAC system that is long lasting (or at least that is what the
> service companies have convinced us). The plumbing industry has many
> parallels. I just replaced my 32 year old Ruud water heater. Do I think my
> shiny new Rheem solar tank will last anywhere near that long? No chance. I
> expect service, and ultimately replacement costs.
>
> Realistically, we can't expect manufacturers to care that we are 1, 10, or
> 100 miles from the end consumer. If a consumer lives two hours from the
> dealer and decides to make a purchase (of anything), they shouldn't
> realistically expect a dealer to service their system for the same price as
> a customer on their own block. Proximity certainly isn't in the control of
> the manufacturer. At a certain point we need to pass the costs on to
> consumers and set expectations realistically. That's our job and our
> responsibility.
>
> I'm not a solar historian by any means, but having been part of the solar
> thermal industry for the last 5 years, I have my suspicions that the PV
> warranty race was borne out of the solar water heating industry. If I'm not
> mistaken my 1999 Astropower modules had a 10 year warranty. Now 25 years is
> the de factor minimum standard. In my neck of the woods (solar pool heating
> heaven) we went through the same life cycle, and now manufacturers are
> stuck with offering ridiculously generous warranties for systems that see
> millions of gallons of water passing through them every year.
>
> I'd love to have a thriving and profitable service department, but until
> consumer expectations are brought back to reality, its not fun work.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Steve McCarney <stevemccarney54 at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Warranty-related service calls and related issues are compounded for off
>> grid sites where travel time is usually longer than the time it takes to do
>> the service.  The burden is unequally shared since some problems are due to
>> faulty equipment, user/site circumstances and installer responsibility.
>>
>> We install solar powered vaccine fridges in Africa and the Americas and
>> have recently wrestled with this globally and are discussing a way to
>> assign the responsibility so the installer is not unfairly saddled with the
>> lions share of the costs.
>>
>> It seems fair that the cost of service should be borne by the responsible
>> party - if determined to be an equipment failure within warranty period
>> shouldn't the manufacturer be liable for cost of service?  But if the user
>> (or the site conditions that are out the control of manufacturer and
>> installer) are the cause then the owner should pay but if the installer
>> caused it then they should be liable.
>>
>> These same concerns come up when system acceptance (and final payment) is
>> tied to some sort of system performance metric that might again be impacted
>> by equipment, user/site conditions or the installer.
>>
>> We are trying to point all this out to buyers ahead of time to get their
>> agreement to be responsible in cases user/site circumstances lead to a
>> service call/warranty call.  However moving the manufacturers toward a more
>> equitable stake in post install expenses is difficult, especially if you
>> are not a high volume buyer.
>>
>> And then there is the question of who determines the cause of a problem
>> since it will not always be clear.
>>
>> Steve McCarney
>> Project Manager
>> Solar Electric Light Fund.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 6:06 AM, Jason Szumlanski <jason at szumlanski.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Frankly, our issue is the UNsteady stream of service issues with both
>>> string and microinverters. There isn't enough warranty or non-warranty
>>> service work and it is too unpredictable to justify a dedicated PV service
>>> department with dedicated personnel that can run economically. As a result,
>>> we have to pull install crews from active installations to handle these
>>> issues, which is neither economical nor good for our installation business.
>>> As much as PV service is an annoyance for system owners, it's a huge
>>> distraction for a small dealer. In fact, one competitor refuses to service
>>> the systems they install. We have been picking up service business as a
>>> result (we have a reputation for doing so and manufacturers call us), but
>>> it's still not steady enough to handle well.
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> On Oct 15, 2014 4:41 PM, "Rebecca Lundberg" <
>>> rebecca.lundberg at powerfullygreen.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We are starting to see a fairly steady stream of various solar
>>>> electronics needing replacement under warranty, including micro-inverters,
>>>> AC modules (microinverter failing), and even modules with an integrated DC
>>>> electronic component failing to work from the get go. I work with
>>>> residential customers and care about doing right by them, and of course
>>>> they expect that their warrantied part will be replaced at no cost to them,
>>>> they have already invested a lot in their solar project. Sometimes the
>>>> manufacturer has a stipend which at least offsets the cost of gas but does
>>>> not cover time to travel to the site and do the replacement, but I have
>>>> recently come across several manufacturers who do not give any stipend at
>>>> all and I am surprised at that. Replacing a module in the middle of a
>>>> pitched roof is no small feat, and getting to micro inverters on a steep
>>>> pitch is always a challenge. As the code requires more safety features down
>>>> to the module level, I suspect we will see more and more of this, and the
>>>> electronics are no longer at ground level and easily accessible. What ideas
>>>> do you have about how to deal with this? Must we have an O and M contract
>>>> with every customer given current product choices?
>>>>
>>>> A similar question relates to a particular module having issues
>>>> with delamination and failed diodes. We have been called out to several
>>>> sites where this has caused the inverter to sense a fault, and testing
>>>> showed the module leaking voltage to ground. Who is responsible for getting
>>>> the inverter up and running when it clearly stems from the module? I
>>>> suspect the module manufacturer's warranty legally exempts them from
>>>> responsibility, but again it is reasonable for the customer to expect a
>>>> warrantied system to be up and running.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts from the field?
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Rebecca Lundberg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rebecca Lundberg
>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ®
>>>> Owner/President
>>>> *Powerfully Green*®
>>>> 763.438.1976 | Rebecca.Lundberg at PowerfullyGreen.com
>>>>
>>>> Powered by the Sun!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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-- 
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com>
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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