[RE-wrenches] GT with batteries in Calif.

[Jerry Shafer]

RE-Wrenches
We have been doing battery back up systems for years and some times the
utility goes sideways,  we recently did a battery back up with 2 OutBack
Radians, 950 Ah Nickle iron batteries usable is estimated at 27.36 kW, here
the utility gave us a 20 amp 240 volt cap for back feeding so we set up the
system to only back feed at that rate no more. We also set the "sell" volts
up high enough to prevent battery selling, Waht I am saying is with Outback
there is allot of programming that you can do to prevent or greatly reduce
the potential of battery selling.



On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Christopher Warfel <
cwarfel at entech-engineering.com> wrote:

> I am not familiar with PGE's time of use rates for residential. I have to
> assume that they do have TOU built into their metering. Buying at any time
> is predicated by the load of the facility, including battery load, so this
> is probably their concern. Given the costs of batteries it seems
> uneconomcai to buy batteries just to store energy to sell on peak, but I
> don't have your peak vs off peak tariff.  We have been putting in two
> meters on our systems, but to make it work properly for determing actual PV
> generation we had to put a detent in the meter on the back up panel
> circuit. Now the only way I think that this can be done by utilty type
> meters is to buy a programmable meter and have it record input and output
> similar to how the utility meter operates.
>
> If they will accept a DAS system (and some are now compliant with utility
> accuracy reqiuirements, place a product such as EGauge on the battery back
> up circuit. If you are exporting at a time with n o or little solar input,
> then they know you are using your batteies to generate revenus. This could
> required a insolation meter, and all of this will get expensive and
> complicated quickly. It seems that PV can be used for grid support by
> exporting and PGE or whomever should encourage on peak selling back to
> them. They could set a price for exported power below tariff, but still
> acceptable to the owner, and they would find that the solar exported power
> on peak is below their mariginal cost for electiricty.
>
> I know I have complicated this, but this is really what an industry group,
> the commission and the utility should work out.  In any case, a 10 kW
> battery system, will probalby exceed most grid connected battery systems,
> and the whole issue is moot.
>
>
>
>
> ------- Original Message ------- On 7/2/2014 10:21 PM Bruce Erickson wrote:
> Recently the CPUC ruled that the utilities must continue to allow
> interconnection of net metered sys tems with batteries, but some
> stipulations were added. One is that systems with storage over "10 KW"
> (which is not a storage metric) require an additional meter, ostensibly so
> that the utility can see that customers aren't buying off-peak and selling
> on-peak. I've been trying to find out for weeks what the specifics are on
> this meter requirement, what type of meter, where it would go in the
> system, etc. I haven't been able to get answers from PG&E, Outback, or
> CALSEIA. Has anyone else run into this situation or gotten any answers? Is
> anyone doing battery systems?
>
> *Bruce Erickson*
> Mendocino Solar Service
> PO Box 1252
> Mendocino, CA 95460
> 707-937-1701
> 707-937-1741 fax
> bruce at mendocinosolar.com
>
> *Celebrating 20 Years in Solar!* 1994-2014
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Christopher Warfel, ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI
> 02807, 401-466-8978 (v)(f)
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