[RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Jason Andrade
jason at westcoastsustainables.com
Tue Mar 25 13:05:19 PDT 2014
By using the Magic stacking on the Outback I thought you could parallel more
than one inverter per phase in three phase mode, I have heard of reactivity
issues with this while attached to 3 phase condenser units I would suggest
contacting tech on this.
This would be a though call for me I would probably go with the Sunny
Islands AC coupled myself I have some great systems out there using the SI
equipment.
Jason
Hi All;
I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw Kohler
wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air compressors, so
rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily interested in reducing gen
run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day.
So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in 208, 3
phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 inverter per
leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or
10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this.
1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking?
2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to 240
vac/ singe phase?
We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other single
phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air conditioners,
that are currently running on 208 single phase. I believe they would run
fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac.
3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie together at
the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. This seems
inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various inverters.
All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always,
--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
West Coast Sustainables
Jason Andrade
C-46# 974647
(530) 410-4745 Cell
(530) 241-7498 Office
(530) 348-5301 Fax
Jason at westcoastsustainables.com
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Today's Topics:
1. 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Ray Walters)
2. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (William Miller)
3. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Ray Walters)
4. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (william at millersolar.com)
5. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Michael Morningstar)
6. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Brian Mehalic)
7. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Steve Jefferson)
8. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Ray Walters)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:44:14 -0600
From: Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Message-ID: <5330ED7E.2080205 at solarray.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi All;
I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw Kohler
wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air compressors, so
rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily interested in reducing gen
run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day.
So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in 208, 3
phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 inverter per
leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or
10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this.
1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking?
2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to 240
vac/ singe phase?
We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other single
phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air conditioners,
that are currently running on 208 single phase. I believe they would run
fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac.
3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie together at
the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. This seems
inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various inverters.
All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always,
--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 19:58:49 -0700
From: "William Miller" <william at millersolar.com>
To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Message-ID: <076601cf47d6$25d54120$717fc360$@millersolar.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ray
Sunny Island or XW.
Wm
-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Hi All;
I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw Kohler
wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air compressors, so
rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily interested in reducing gen
run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day.
So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in 208, 3
phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 inverter per
leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or
10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this.
1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking?
2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to 240
vac/ singe phase?
We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other single
phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air conditioners,
that are currently running on 208 single phase. I believe they would run
fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac.
3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie together at
the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. This seems
inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various inverters.
All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always,
--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 21:34:37 -0600
From: Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Message-ID: <5330F94D.3090804 at solarray.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi William;
I was told by two different major distributors a few months ago that
the Sunny Islands were not going to be available in the US anymore
because of some volume purchasing issues. Has that been sorted out?
The XW I have not installed, since I've had poor results with other
recent Schneider products. No where could I find in the spec sheet any
mention of 3 phase/ 208 capability, but I found some mention of 3 phase
in the manual for the XW Config software. (XW 6048 Spec sheet just says
single phase, so is this a newer capability? or just in the config software)
Do you have specs or a wiring diagram for the XW in 208/ 3 phase? For
instance, what is the L to L (single phase) power rating at 208 vac?
Are the XWs decent? I've heard some positive feed back from other wrenches.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 3/24/2014 8:58 PM, William Miller wrote:
> Ray
>
> Sunny Island or XW.
>
> Wm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray
Walters
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
>
> Hi All;
>
> I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw
Kohler
> wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air compressors,
so
> rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily interested in reducing gen
> run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day.
> So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in 208,
3
> phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 inverter per
> leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or
> 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this.
> 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking?
> 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to 240
> vac/ singe phase?
>
> We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other single
> phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air
conditioners,
> that are currently running on 208 single phase. I believe they would run
> fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac.
> 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie together
at
> the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. This seems
> inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various
inverters.
>
> All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always,
>
> --
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
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>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 21:41:49 -0700
From: <william at millersolar.com>
To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Message-ID: <0c5001cf47e4$898f9e00$9caeda00$@millersolar.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ray:
Sunny Islands being discontinued: Did not know that!
XW inverters: Not impressed and have had mixed results. I have resolved
most issues but dealt with glitchy, overcomplicated software and firmware.
Some are reluctant to connect to generators and earlier firmware would not
sell efficiently. Also the BOS cabinet is way too small, but aren't they
all?
Wm
-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 8:35 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Hi William;
I was told by two different major distributors a few months ago that the
Sunny Islands were not going to be available in the US anymore
because of some volume purchasing issues. Has that been sorted out?
The XW I have not installed, since I've had poor results with other recent
Schneider products. No where could I find in the spec sheet any mention of
3 phase/ 208 capability, but I found some mention of 3 phase in the manual
for the XW Config software. (XW 6048 Spec sheet just says single phase, so
is this a newer capability? or just in the config software) Do you have
specs or a wiring diagram for the XW in 208/ 3 phase? For instance, what is
the L to L (single phase) power rating at 208 vac?
Are the XWs decent? I've heard some positive feed back from other wrenches.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 3/24/2014 8:58 PM, William Miller wrote:
> Ray
>
> Sunny Island or XW.
>
> Wm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray
> Walters
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
>
> Hi All;
>
> I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw
> Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air
> compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily
> interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/
day.
> So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in
> 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1
> inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or
> 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this.
> 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking?
> 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to
> 240 vac/ singe phase?
>
> We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other
> single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air
> conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I
> believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating
at 230 vac.
> 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie
> together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected.
> This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the
various inverters.
>
> All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always,
>
> --
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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>
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>
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 06:54:54 -0700
From: Michael Morningstar <mjmorningstar at gmail.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Message-ID: <D802416E-D37D-4FCE-BFAD-DE17568A9E9D at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I believe that with the transformer scenario, you will still have a
secondary output with a 120 degree phase angle. Stacked inverters don't like
that. Don't ask me how I know . It's been almost twenty years since I've run
into your exact situation, and I remember experimenting with both open delta
and Scott-T transformers only to make that discovery. The web wasn't what it
is now, so there may be something that wasn't presenting itself back then.
Good Luck
On Mar 24, 2014, at 7:44 PM, Ray Walters wrot
> Hi All;
>
> I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw
Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air
compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily interested in
reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day.
> So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in 208,
3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 inverter per
leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or 10.8 kW. I would
like expandability beyond this.
> 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking?
> 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to 240
vac/ singe phase?
>
> We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other single
phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air conditioners,
that are currently running on 208 single phase. I believe they would run
fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac.
> 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie together
at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. This seems
inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various inverters.
>
> All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always,
>
> --
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
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>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 10:04:06 -0400
From: Brian Mehalic <brian at solarenergy.org>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Message-ID:
<CAPKGs9QDZc=Ye9-ZUuJF=7dEtUADytLPu-LFnNdQ73F=xFnECQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Wait a sec, "volume purchasing issues" doesn't equal "discontinued"!
Sounds more like they're selling all they can make to a big customer!
Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional(tm) R031508-59
IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132
PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:41 AM, <william at millersolar.com> wrote:
> Ray:
>
> Sunny Islands being discontinued: Did not know that!
>
> XW inverters: Not impressed and have had mixed results. I have resolved
> most issues but dealt with glitchy, overcomplicated software and firmware.
> Some are reluctant to connect to generators and earlier firmware would not
> sell efficiently. Also the BOS cabinet is way too small, but aren't they
> all?
>
> Wm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray
> Walters
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 8:35 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
>
> Hi William;
>
> I was told by two different major distributors a few months ago that the
> Sunny Islands were not going to be available in the US anymore
> because of some volume purchasing issues. Has that been sorted out?
>
> The XW I have not installed, since I've had poor results with other
recent
> Schneider products. No where could I find in the spec sheet any mention
of
> 3 phase/ 208 capability, but I found some mention of 3 phase in the manual
> for the XW Config software. (XW 6048 Spec sheet just says single phase, so
> is this a newer capability? or just in the config software) Do you have
> specs or a wiring diagram for the XW in 208/ 3 phase? For instance, what
> is
> the L to L (single phase) power rating at 208 vac?
> Are the XWs decent? I've heard some positive feed back from other
wrenches.
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 3/24/2014 8:58 PM, William Miller wrote:
> > Ray
> >
> > Sunny Island or XW.
> >
> > Wm
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> > [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray
> > Walters
> > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM
> > To: RE-wrenches
> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
> >
> > Hi All;
> >
> > I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw
> > Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air
> > compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily
> > interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/
> day.
> > So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in
> > 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1
> > inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or
> > 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this.
> > 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking?
> > 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to
> > 240 vac/ singe phase?
> >
> > We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other
> > single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air
> > conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I
> > believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating
> at 230 vac.
> > 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie
> > together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected.
> > This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the
> various inverters.
> >
> > All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always,
> >
> > --
> > R.Ray Walters
> > CTO, Solarray, Inc
> > Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> > Licensed Master Electrician
> > Solar Design Engineer
> > 303 505-8760
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List sponsored by Home Power magazine
> >
> > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> >
> > Change email address & settings:
> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> >
> > List-Archive:
> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> >
> > List rules & etiquette:
> > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> >
> > Check out participant bios:
> > www.members.re-wrenches.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List sponsored by Home Power magazine
> >
> > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> >
> > Change email address & settings:
> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:14:14 +0000
From: Steve Jefferson <Steve.Jefferson at sma-america.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Message-ID:
<41FE255D65D554478C3B17F3EB5410EF9115603F at SVR-US-EXMBX-01.sma.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Morning Wrenches,
The Sunny Island is NOT being discontinued. The 4248 and 5048 are being
replaced with models 4548 and 6048.
Both of the new models will work with 208VAC without issue.
Also, if you are adding to an existing system that has the 5048 model, both
new models will operate fine with it.
Thanks
SMA America, LLC
Steve Jefferson
Service Line Supervisor
3925 Atherton Ave
Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714
U.S.A.
Tel: +1 916 625 3185 (direct)
Fax: +1 916 625 0871
Mobile: +1 916 622 4253
Email:
Steve.jefferson at SMA-America.com<mailto:Steve.jefferson at SMA-America.com>
www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/>
[cid:image001.png at 01CF1CFA.FE18BEB0]<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQWzPuyq
hzo&feature=youtu.be>
This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC
confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the
intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or
any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and
permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
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From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Brian
Mehalic
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 7:04 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Wait a sec, "volume purchasing issues" doesn't equal "discontinued"! Sounds
more like they're selling all they can make to a big customer!
Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional(tm) R031508-59
IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132
PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:41 AM,
<william at millersolar.com<mailto:william at millersolar.com>> wrote:
Ray:
Sunny Islands being discontinued: Did not know that!
XW inverters: Not impressed and have had mixed results. I have resolved
most issues but dealt with glitchy, overcomplicated software and firmware.
Some are reluctant to connect to generators and earlier firmware would not
sell efficiently. Also the BOS cabinet is way too small, but aren't they
all?
Wm
-----Original Message-----
From:
re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.r
e-wrenches.org>
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces
@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 8:35 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Hi William;
I was told by two different major distributors a few months ago that the
Sunny Islands were not going to be available in the US anymore
because of some volume purchasing issues. Has that been sorted out?
The XW I have not installed, since I've had poor results with other recent
Schneider products. No where could I find in the spec sheet any mention of
3 phase/ 208 capability, but I found some mention of 3 phase in the manual
for the XW Config software. (XW 6048 Spec sheet just says single phase, so
is this a newer capability? or just in the config software) Do you have
specs or a wiring diagram for the XW in 208/ 3 phase? For instance, what is
the L to L (single phase) power rating at 208 vac?
Are the XWs decent? I've heard some positive feed back from other wrenches.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 3/24/2014 8:58 PM, William Miller wrote:
> Ray
>
> Sunny Island or XW.
>
> Wm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.r
e-wrenches.org>
>
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces
@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Ray
> Walters
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
>
> Hi All;
>
> I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw
> Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air
> compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily
> interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/
day.
> So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in
> 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1
> inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or
> 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this.
> 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking?
> 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to
> 240 vac/ singe phase?
>
> We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other
> single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air
> conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I
> believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating
at 230 vac.
> 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie
> together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected.
> This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the
various inverters.
>
> All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always,
>
> --
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 10:18:34 -0600
From: Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
Message-ID: <5331AC5A.5060901 at solarray.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Here's an off list reply from a friend of mine at SMA:
Sunny islands are alive and well in the US.
SMA required distributors to technically support them to get the best
pricing. Some of the big boys declined and have been eliminating their
advanced tech support, design services.
Who told you SI-US is going away?
To "stack" 3 phase clusters you use a multicluster box. You can gang 12 si's
that way.
-Wes
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 3/24/2014 10:41 PM, william at millersolar.com wrote:
> Ray:
>
> Sunny Islands being discontinued: Did not know that!
>
> XW inverters: Not impressed and have had mixed results. I have resolved
> most issues but dealt with glitchy, overcomplicated software and firmware.
> Some are reluctant to connect to generators and earlier firmware would not
> sell efficiently. Also the BOS cabinet is way too small, but aren't they
> all?
>
> Wm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray
Walters
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 8:35 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
>
> Hi William;
>
> I was told by two different major distributors a few months ago that the
> Sunny Islands were not going to be available in the US anymore
> because of some volume purchasing issues. Has that been sorted out?
>
> The XW I have not installed, since I've had poor results with other
recent
> Schneider products. No where could I find in the spec sheet any mention
of
> 3 phase/ 208 capability, but I found some mention of 3 phase in the manual
> for the XW Config software. (XW 6048 Spec sheet just says single phase, so
> is this a newer capability? or just in the config software) Do you have
> specs or a wiring diagram for the XW in 208/ 3 phase? For instance, what
is
> the L to L (single phase) power rating at 208 vac?
> Are the XWs decent? I've heard some positive feed back from other
wrenches.
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 3/24/2014 8:58 PM, William Miller wrote:
>> Ray
>>
>> Sunny Island or XW.
>>
>> Wm
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray
>> Walters
>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter
>>
>> Hi All;
>>
>> I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw
>> Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air
>> compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily
>> interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/
> day.
>> So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in
>> 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1
>> inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or
>> 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this.
>> 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking?
>> 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to
>> 240 vac/ singe phase?
>>
>> We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other
>> single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air
>> conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I
>> believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating
> at 230 vac.
>> 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie
>> together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected.
>> This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the
> various inverters.
>> All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always,
>>
>> --
>> R.Ray Walters
>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>> Licensed Master Electrician
>> Solar Design Engineer
>> 303 505-8760
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
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>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change email address & settings:
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>>
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