[RE-wrenches] 2014 NEC AFCI

Wed May 28 09:49:52 PDT 2014

I get it about the delay. If you reset and close the tripped AFCI (or the grid comes back up after a power failure), you’ll have to wait 5 mins. before the inverters start to push power to the grid. But the AFCI is not being backfed during this wait. The same would occur overnight until the inverters wake up in the morning. If the AFCI breaker, when closed, is subject to damage with grid voltage on the load side when the inverters are not operational, then it’s a lot trickier to get the relay scenario to work. Maybe it isn’t doable. 

Kirk Herander

VT Solar, LLC 

Un-Common PV since 1991

www.vermontsolarnow.com

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant

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From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 11:15 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 2014 NEC AFCI

Hi Kirk

I thought about that, but you'll still need it on for the 5 minute clock. 

If Nick is right and no voltage is acceptable on output side, then I don't see how even with relays etc to get it to work?

Jay

Peltz power

On May 28, 2014, at 7:32 AM, "Kirk Herander" <kirk at vtsolar.com> wrote:

Sounds like you need the load side of the AFCI to disconnect from the grid if it trips. So you could have a power relay between grid and load side of the AFCI, the relay coil energized from the line side of the AFCI, i.e. the Enphase panel the AFCI is plugged into. So if it trips, power is lost on the Enphase panel buss, and the load side relay opens, disconnecting the AFCI from the grid.

So no grid power on load side of AFCI when open. Acceptable?

Kirk Herander

VT Solar, LLC 

Un-Common PV since 1991

www.vermontsolarnow.com

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 12:01 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 2014 NEC

Hi Jay,

It is not acceptable to wire the AFCI breaker with the utility power on the output of the AFCI breaker.  That does not meet the specifications for the AFCI breakers.  These breakers are sensitive to having voltage on their output when the breaker is opened, which can damage the AFCI breakers.

Currently, there are no AFCI circuit breakers that are listed for back-feed.

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 8:10 AM, jay peltz <jay at asis.com> wrote:

HI Will,

You can do this.

Take a standard breaker panel, install a Arc fault and run the wiring from the enphase like it is the grid: ie into the main lugs.

Then this will go out through the breaker in the correct fashion, and onto the main panel.

jay

peltz power

PS as to the code, they want it this way

On May 20, 2014, at 7:59 AM, Will White wrote:

Wrenches,

Is anyone else having problems with inspectors and the 2014 NEC?  In Mass we’re having all kinds of issues with inspectors requiring/allowing an array of different things for 690.12 rapid shut down ranging from roof top disconnects, disconnects on the side of a house 20’ up, disconnects in attics, or only disconnects that can be activated on the ground.  It varies between inspectors.

We’re also having problems with one inspector requiring arc fault breakers on Enphase even though there are no UL listed arc fault breakers that can be back fed or he wants us to run the trunk cable in a raceway. 

It’s getting very difficult to install in Mass.

Thanks,

Will

Will White
Operations Manager - New England

RGS Energy

64 Main St. |Montpelier, VT 05602
tel 802.223.7804 | mobile 802.234.3167 | fax 802.223.8980

 <http://www.rgsenergy.com/> RGSEnergy.com |  <mailto:william.white at rgsenergy.com> william.white at rgsenergy.com

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