[RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29

Jeffrey Quackenbush quackkcauq at yahoo.com
Thu Jan 23 10:28:28 PST 2014 

Ray--

What poisonous fumes do lead-acid batteries off-gas? I know they off-gas hydrogen, which can be an explosion hazard -- but hydrogen isn't poisonous. Or were you thinking about a different type of battery.

Jeffrey Quackenbush



On Thursday, January 23, 2014 8:19 PM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
 
I must jump on my soap box, as I have so many time in the past, and follow up Glenn's comment here.  We worry so much about details of PV arrays, while batteries are serious safety hazards that no one (including the NEC) ever wants to address.  Not only can they not be de-energized, they have amazing short circuit potential (unlike PV) and they can explode as well. Meanwhile in normal operation, they off gas poisonous fumes.   
>The whole industry is looking at energy storage now, as well, so
      this isn't just confined to the off grid fringe anymore.
>Further, many industrial complexes have large battery banks for
      UPS systems and electric forklifts.  
>Why is the NEC still not making any real changes on battery
      storage?  There have been some fairly interesting fires from
      utility scale battery systems, seems its more than about time.
>
>R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 1/23/2014 5:49 AM, Glenn Burt wrote:
>
>
>"They can safely shut down any electrical system in a building—except for PV systems."
>
>Not completely true, as batteries are stored energy systems
          and while they may be disconnected, are still energized
          regardless of the state of other systems.
>
>________________________________
> From: David Brearley
>Sent: ‎1/‎22/‎2014 22:48
>To: RE-wrenches
>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29
>
>
Drake, 
>
>
>As far I know you are correct. There have not been any firefighter deaths due to solar. 
>
>
>However, a fire chief in New Jersey did suggest that he let a warehouse burn down due to the presence of a PV system on the roof:
>
>
>http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/23313172/multiple-alarm-fire
>
>
>http://www.theatlanticcities.com/technology/2013/09/why-firefighters-are-scared-solar-power/6854/
>
>
>That suggests to me that while there is no crisis today, there is certainly the potential for one down the road. Imagine the insurance industry's response if fire fighters make a habit of not responding to structural fires due to the presence of PV systems. Fire fighters want touch-safe PV modules. And they have a reasonable complaint. They can safely shut down any electrical system in a building—except for PV systems.
>
>
>SEIA and SEPA are the solar industry lobby. Please do engage and support them. SEIA even has a political action committee, the SolarPAC. Part of the way that I try to stay on top of evolving Code issues is by attending SEIA- and SEPA-sponsored events. 
>
>
>Also, over the past 4 or 5 years, the Solar America Board of Codes and Standards has scheduled annual meetings that coincide with Intersolar. Those are very informative sessions. I think the sessions are even archived online at solarancs.org.
>
>
>David Brearley
>Senior Technical Editor, SolarPro magazine
>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>david.brearley at solarprofessional.com
>Direct: 541.261.6545
>
>
>
>On Jan 22, 2014, at 8:18 PM, re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org wrote:
>
>
>>From: Drake <drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>
>>
>>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC 2014 690.12 Rapid Shutdown
>>
>>Date: January 22, 2014 2:16:18 PM CST
>>
>>To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>>Reply-To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>>
>>David,
>> 
>>My sincere thanks to all of you who worked to keep the
              module level disconnect requirement out of the 2014 code
              cycle. That ruling would have amounted to a knockout punch
              for string and central inverters on buildings. 
>> 
>>What was the driving force behind this push for immediate
              module level disconnection? There has clearly not been a rash of firefighter deaths due to PV systems. Although PV needs to continue evolving safety standards that take into account the concerns of firefighters, there is no crisis that would justify thwarting one of the few growing sectors of our economy.  
>> 
>>The PV track record has been amazingly good. So far, I've
              found no accounts of solar related firefighter deaths or
              injuries. The NFPA statistics show that the highest cause
              of firefighter death is heart attack. http://www.nfpa.org/newsandpublications/nfpa-journal/2013/july-august-2013/features/firefighter-fatalities-in-the-united-states-2012 
>> 
>>This push for crippling regulation bears the earmark of
              ALEC’s extensive and effective war on solar. As you can
              read in the following links, the massively funded, Koch
              brothers-linked ALEC is lobbying heavily, on every level,
              to derail solar. All who are associated with the solar
              industry need to be aware of this powerful lobbying
              campaign. 
>> 
>>http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/04/alec-freerider-homeowners-assault-clean-energy 
>> 
>>http://www.salon.com/2013/12/05/alec_freeriders_with_solar_panels_must_pay_for_robbing_the_system/ 
>> 
>>http://beforeitsnews.com/environment/2014/01/alec-gain-an-inside-track-on-colorado-solar-2490132.html 
>> 
>>Is there any way that the solar community can be alerted
              when threats to our industry are being put before the NEC?
              Although few contractors have the time or money to walk
              away from their businesses and attend code writing
              committees, a substantial number might have the time to
              make phone calls and send letters or emails to code
              writers. 
>> 
>>The solar industry needs a strong lobby of its own. 
>> 
>>Drake 
>>
>>
>
>
>[The entire original message is not included.]
>
>
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