<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div><span>Ray--</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span>What poisonous fumes do lead-acid batteries off-gas? I know they off-gas hydrogen, which can be an explosion hazard -- but hydrogen isn't poisonous. Or were you thinking about a different type of battery.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span>Jeffrey Quackenbush</span></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block; "> <br> <br> <div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; "> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; "> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Thursday, January 23, 2014 8:19 PM, Ray Walters <ray@solarray.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv8426457540"><div>
<div class="yiv8426457540moz-cite-prefix">I must jump on my soap box, as I have
so many time in the past, and follow up Glenn's comment here. We
worry so much about details of PV arrays, while batteries are
serious safety hazards that no one (including the NEC) ever wants
to address. Not only can they not be de-energized, they have
amazing short circuit potential (unlike PV) and they can explode
as well. Meanwhile in normal operation, they off gas poisonous
fumes. <br clear="none">
The whole industry is looking at energy storage now, as well, so
this isn't just confined to the off grid fringe anymore.<br clear="none">
Further, many industrial complexes have large battery banks for
UPS systems and electric forklifts. <br clear="none">
Why is the NEC still not making any real changes on battery
storage? There have been some fairly interesting fires from
utility scale battery systems, seems its more than about time.<br clear="none">
<pre class="yiv8426457540moz-signature">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 1/23/2014 5:49 AM, Glenn Burt wrote:<div class="yiv8426457540yqt3464643921" id="yiv8426457540yqtfd53952"><br clear="none">
</div></div><div class="yiv8426457540yqt3464643921" id="yiv8426457540yqtfd29487">
<blockquote type="cite">
</blockquote></div></div><div class="yiv8426457540yqt3464643921" id="yiv8426457540yqtfd42196"><div><div>
<div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">"They
can safely shut down any electrical system in a
building—except for PV systems."<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Not completely true, as batteries are stored energy systems
and while they may be disconnected, are still energized
regardless of the state of other systems.</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<hr>
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From: </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:david.brearley@solarprofessional.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:david.brearley@solarprofessional.com">David
Brearley</a></span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Sent: </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">1/22/2014 22:48</span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">To: </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a></span><br clear="none">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Subject: </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Re: [RE-wrenches]
RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29</span><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
Drake,
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>As far I know you are correct. There have not been any
firefighter deaths due to solar. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>However, a fire chief in New Jersey did suggest that he let a
warehouse burn down due to the presence of a PV system on the
roof:</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/23313172/multiple-alarm-fire">http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/23313172/multiple-alarm-fire</a></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.theatlanticcities.com/technology/2013/09/why-firefighters-are-scared-solar-power/6854/">http://www.theatlanticcities.com/technology/2013/09/why-firefighters-are-scared-solar-power/6854/</a></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>That suggests to me that while there is no crisis today,
there is certainly the potential for one down the road. Imagine
the insurance industry's response if fire fighters make a habit
of not responding to structural fires due to the presence of PV
systems. Fire fighters want touch-safe PV modules. And they have
a reasonable complaint. They can safely shut down any electrical
system in a building—except for PV systems.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>SEIA and SEPA are the solar industry lobby. Please do engage
and support them. SEIA even has a political action committee,
the SolarPAC. Part of the way that I try to stay on top of
evolving Code issues is by attending SEIA- and SEPA-sponsored
events. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Also, over the past 4 or 5 years, the Solar America Board of
Codes and Standards has scheduled annual meetings that coincide
with Intersolar. Those are very informative sessions. I think
the sessions are even archived online at <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://solarancs.org/">solarancs.org</a>.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<div>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word;">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word;">
<div>David Brearley</div>
<div>Senior Technical Editor,<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>SolarPro</i><span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span>magazine</div>
<div>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional</div>
<div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:david.brearley@solarprofessional.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:david.brearley@solarprofessional.com">david.brearley@solarprofessional.com</a></div>
<div>Direct: 541.261.6545</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div>On Jan 22, 2014, at 8:18 PM, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-request@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches-request@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-request@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
wrote:</div>
<br clear="none" class="yiv8426457540Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="yiv8426457540Apple-style-span" style="WHITE-SPACE:normal;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;WORD-SPACING:0px;FONT:medium Helvetica;ORPHANS:2;WIDOWS:2;LETTER-SPACING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;">
</span><div style="MARGIN:0px;"><span style="font-size: medium; color: rgb(127, 127, 127); font-family: Helvetica; "><b><br clear="none" class="yiv8426457540Apple-interchange-newline">
From:<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; ">Drake
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" ymailto="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px;"><span style="font-size: medium; color: rgb(127, 127, 127); font-family: Helvetica; "><b>Subject:<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; "><b>Re:
[RE-wrenches] NEC 2014 690.12 Rapid Shutdown</b><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px;"><span style="font-size: medium; color: rgb(127, 127, 127); font-family: Helvetica; "><b>Date:<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; ">January
22, 2014 2:16:18 PM CST<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px;"><span style="font-size: medium; color: rgb(127, 127, 127); font-family: Helvetica; "><b>To:<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; ">RE-wrenches
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0px;"><span style="font-size: medium; color: rgb(127, 127, 127); font-family: Helvetica; "><b>Reply-To:<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Helvetica; ">RE-wrenches
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
David,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
My sincere thanks to all of you who worked to keep the
module level disconnect requirement out of the 2014 code
cycle. That ruling would have amounted to a knockout punch
for string and central inverters on buildings.<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
What was the driving force behind this push for immediate
module level disconnection? There has clearly<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><u>not</u><span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span>been a rash of
firefighter deaths due to PV systems. Although PV needs to
continue evolving safety standards that take into account
the concerns of firefighters, there is no crisis that
would justify thwarting one of the few growing sectors of
our economy. <span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The PV track record has been amazingly good. So far, I've
found no accounts of solar related firefighter deaths or
injuries. The NFPA statistics show that the highest cause
of firefighter death is heart attack.<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" target="_blank" href="http://www.nfpa.org/newsandpublications/nfpa-journal/2013/july-august-2013/features/firefighter-fatalities-in-the-united-states-2012">http://www.nfpa.org/newsandpublications/nfpa-journal/2013/july-august-2013/features/firefighter-fatalities-in-the-united-states-2012</a><span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
This push for crippling regulation bears the earmark of
ALEC’s extensive and effective war on solar. As you can
read in the following links, the massively funded, Koch
brothers-linked ALEC is lobbying heavily, on every level,
to derail solar. All who are associated with the solar
industry need to be aware of this powerful lobbying
campaign.<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" target="_blank" href="http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/04/alec-freerider-homeowners-assault-clean-energy">http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/04/alec-freerider-homeowners-assault-clean-energy</a><span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" target="_blank" href="http://www.salon.com/2013/12/05/alec_freeriders_with_solar_panels_must_pay_for_robbing_the_system/">http://www.salon.com/2013/12/05/alec_freeriders_with_solar_panels_must_pay_for_robbing_the_system/</a><span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;" target="_blank" href="http://beforeitsnews.com/environment/2014/01/alec-gain-an-inside-track-on-colorado-solar-2490132.html">http://beforeitsnews.com/environment/2014/01/alec-gain-an-inside-track-on-colorado-solar-2490132.html</a><span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Is there any way that the solar community can be alerted
when threats to our industry are being put before the NEC?
Although few contractors have the time or money to walk
away from their businesses and attend code writing
committees, a substantial number might have the time to
make phone calls and send letters or emails to code
writers.<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The solar industry needs a strong lobby of its own.<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Drake<span class="yiv8426457540Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>[The entire original message is not included.]</div>
<br clear="none">
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