[RE-wrenches] Magnum System - Discharged Battery Bank

[Larry]

I have installed/serviced thousands of battery based systems, I have not 
seen any reversed cells either, but I know how it happens.

Here's a thought on what could cause multiple lower capacity cells in a 
bank. From the moment a battery is not being charged, including newly 
assembled batteries, it is self discharging and lead sulfate is forming 
on the plates. If left uncharged or undercharged for months, which could 
be date of assembly to date of installation, the capacity could be 
affected due to ionic bonding (a level 2 sulfate bond blocking SO4 from 
finishing the electrochemical process by discharging its electron to 
Pb). Simply put, less surface area is available so there is less 
capacity. Unless the installation date is within 60 days or less of the 
manufacturing date, this could happen.

If these damaged batteries were then mixed with healthy ones, this could 
account for multiple low capacity cells and the scenario I described in 
my previous email would apply.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems

On 12/19/14 12:23 PM, Jay Peltz wrote:
> I find it really curious.
> I've been dealing with batteries for almost 20 yrs. I've seen so many 
> dead, flat batteries, systems etc I can't count them all.
> But I've yet to find a reversed one.
> I understand the process.
>
> I'm trying to understand how he could get multiple reversed batteries 
> at one go?
>
> Jay
> Peltz power
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 19, 2014, at 9:47 AM, Jarmo.Venalainen at schneider-electric.com 
> <mailto:Jarmo.Venalainen at schneider-electric.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi:
>>
>> This cell reversal ability of lead acid batteries gives good 
>> perspective on just how much you can mistreat them and beat them up 
>> and still have an expectation of "recovery".
>>
>> Lithium cells on the other hand without a full range of protections 
>> would have long since filled the home with all kinds of interesting 
>> high temperature thermal events, gaseous compounds and chemicals, and 
>> there is no way you could get that magic smoke back into them.
>>
>> JARMO
>> _____________________________________________________________________________________
>> *
>> Jarmo Venalainen*  | *Schneider Electric **|  Solar Business*  | 
>> *CANADA*  | *Training & Development Specialist - Senior* *
>> Phone:* +604-422-2528  | *Fax:* +604-420-1591  | *Mobile:* 
>> +604-505-0291 *
>> Email:* _jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com_ 
>> <mailto:jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com> | 
>> *Site:*_www.SEsolar.com_ <http://www.sesolar.com/> | *Address:* 3700 
>> Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1
>> _
>> _<mime-attachment.jpg> <http://%20www.sesolar.com/>
>> *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>>
>>
>>
>> From: 	Corey Shalanski <cshalanski at joule-energy.com 
>> <mailto:cshalanski at joule-energy.com>>
>> To: 	re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>,
>> Date: 	12/19/2014 06:48 AM
>> Subject: 	Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum System - Discharged Battery Bank
>> Sent by: 	"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Update on my investigation:
>> I visited the customer's house yesterday to set up a pulse charger. 
>> Much to my surprise the three batteries that originally registered 
>> negative voltage are now reading positive. Does this make sense - are 
>> batteries able to shift between negative and positive voltages at 
>> such a low charge level?
>>
>> I do not see any evidence of distorted cases.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 7:58 AM, <_jay at asis.com_ 
>> <mailto:jay at asis.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I second tump.
>> Most likely a bad /cell battery took out the system.
>> As these are VRLA batteries, I'm curious do,the cases look damaged 
>> such as expanded or sunk in?
>>
>> Jay
>> Peltz power
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________

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