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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I have installed/serviced thousands of
      battery based systems, I have not seen any reversed cells either,
      but I know how it happens.<br>
      <br>
      Here's a thought on what could cause multiple lower capacity cells
      in a bank. From the moment a battery is not being charged,
      including newly assembled batteries, it is self discharging and
      lead sulfate is forming on the plates. If left uncharged or
      undercharged for months, which could be date of assembly to date
      of installation, the capacity could be affected due to ionic
      bonding (a level 2 sulfate bond blocking SO4 from finishing the
      electrochemical process by discharging its electron to Pb). Simply
      put, less surface area is available so there is less capacity.
      Unless the installation date is within 60 days or less of the
      manufacturing date, this could happen.<br>
      <br>
      If these damaged batteries were then mixed with healthy ones, this
      could account for multiple low capacity cells and the scenario I
      described in my previous email would apply. <br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">
Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
</pre>
      On 12/19/14 12:23 PM, Jay Peltz wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:C4B2BB92-11AF-4608-A3B5-29719EE2C597@asis.com"
      type="cite">
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      <div>I find it really curious. </div>
      <div>I've been dealing with batteries for almost 20 yrs. I've seen
        so many dead, flat batteries, systems etc I can't count them
        all. </div>
      <div>But I've yet to find a reversed one. </div>
      <div>I understand the process. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I'm trying to understand how he could get multiple reversed
        batteries at one go?</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Jay </div>
      <div>Peltz power  </div>
      <div><br>
        <br>
        Sent from my iPhone</div>
      <div><br>
        On Dec 19, 2014, at 9:47 AM, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="mailto:Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com">Jarmo.Venalainen@schneider-electric.com</a>
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div><font face="sans-serif" size="2">Hi:</font>
          <br>
          <br>
          <font face="sans-serif" size="2">This cell reversal ability of
            lead acid
            batteries gives good perspective on just how much you can
            mistreat them
            and beat them up and still have an expectation of
            "recovery".</font>
          <br>
          <br>
          <font face="sans-serif" size="2">Lithium cells on the other
            hand without
            a full range of protections would have long since filled the
            home with
            all kinds of interesting high temperature thermal events,
            gaseous compounds
            and chemicals, and there is no way you could get that magic
            smoke back
            into them.</font>
          <br>
          <br>
          <font face="sans-serif" size="2">JARMO <br>
          </font><font color="#008000" size="3">_____________________________________________________________________________________</font><font
            size="3">
            <br>
          </font><font face="Arial" size="1"><b><br>
              Jarmo Venalainen</b>  |  </font><font color="#008000"
            face="Arial" size="1"><b>
              Schneider Electric </b></font><font face="Arial" size="1"><b> 
              |  Solar
              Business</b>  |   <b>CANADA</b>  |   <b>Training &
              Development Specialist - Senior</b> <b><br>
              Phone:</b> +604-422-2528  |   <b>Fax:</b> +604-420-1591
             |
              <b>Mobile:</b> +604-505-0291 <b><br>
              Email:</b> </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com"><font
              color="blue" face="Arial" size="1"><u>jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com</u></font></a><font
            face="Arial" size="1">
             |   <b>Site:</b></font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://www.sesolar.com/" target="_blank"><font
              color="blue" face="Arial" size="1"><u>
                www.SEsolar.com</u></font></a><font face="Arial"
            size="1">  |  
            <b>Address:</b> 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 <br>
          </font><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="1"><u><br>
            </u></font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://%20www.sesolar.com/"><mime-attachment.jpg></a><font
            face="Arial" size="1"><br>
            *** Please consider the environment before printing this
            e-mail</font><font size="3">
            <br>
          </font>
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
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            <tbody>
              <tr valign="top">
                <td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">From:</font>
                </td>
                <td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Corey Shalanski
                    <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:cshalanski@joule-energy.com">cshalanski@joule-energy.com</a>></font>
                </td>
              </tr>
              <tr valign="top">
                <td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">To:</font>
                </td>
                <td><font face="sans-serif" size="1"><a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>,
                  </font>
                </td>
              </tr>
              <tr valign="top">
                <td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Date:</font>
                </td>
                <td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">12/19/2014 06:48 AM</font>
                </td>
              </tr>
              <tr valign="top">
                <td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Subject:</font>
                </td>
                <td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Re: [RE-wrenches]
                    Magnum System - Discharged
                    Battery Bank</font>
                </td>
              </tr>
              <tr valign="top">
                <td><font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif" size="1">Sent
                    by:</font>
                </td>
                <td><font face="sans-serif" size="1">"RE-wrenches" <<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>></font></td>
              </tr>
            </tbody>
          </table>
          <br>
          <hr noshade="noshade">
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <font size="3">Update on my investigation:</font>
          <br>
          <font size="3">I visited the customer's house yesterday to set
            up a pulse
            charger. Much to my surprise the three batteries that
            originally registered
            negative voltage are now reading positive. Does this make
            sense - are batteries
            able to shift between negative and positive voltages at such
            a low charge
            level?</font>
          <br>
          <br>
          <font size="3">I do not see any evidence of distorted cases.</font>
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <font size="3">On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 7:58 AM, <</font><a
            moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jay@asis.com"><font
              color="blue" size="3"><u>jay@asis.com</u></font></a><font
            size="3">>
            wrote:</font>
          <br>
          <font size="3"><br>
            I second tump.<br>
            Most likely a bad /cell battery took out the system.<br>
            As these are VRLA batteries, I'm curious do,the cases look
            damaged such
            as expanded or sunk in?<br>
            <br>
            Jay<br>
            Peltz power</font>
          <br>
          <font size="3"><br>
______________________________________________________________________</font></div>
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