[RE-wrenches] Defective modules

[Jesse Dahl]

The point of the PPA is interesting. We have a local investment group that is using this type of plan on local installs.  After 5 years the system becomes the property of the business/school/city. For the first 5 years it is owned by the investor group overseeing the project. Typically, who then is responsible for any work or replacement of parts during that first 5 years?  Is this typically a job by job agreement that needs to be hashed out for each project?  What type of contracts are installers using to cover themselves during that initial 5 year period?

I could see these investor groups looking for installers that are ignorant of these facts.  This group in my area has started "awarding" projects to various contractors instead of bidding them and looking at prior work in the industry when selecting a contractor. 

Jesse 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 31, 2013, at 12:08 PM, Jeff Irish <jeff at hudsonsolar.com> wrote:

> Unfortunately the situation might be a little more simple, and devious, than that when it comes to the “bean counters”.  Many lease and PPA structures have the tax equity investors out and gone in five years, and the lease holder cashflow positive by then or not long after.  So if there are problems with performance in years 7 – 20, only the installer holding the warranty obligation or valuing the local relationship and reputation will be concerned, or maybe even around. 
>  
> I’m definitely not putting SunPower in this boat; they make a good product, have a proven history of standing behind it, and are taking a long term brand building view in my experience / opinion.
>  
> Jeff Irish
> Hudson Solar
>  
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 12:56 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Defective modules
>  
> First Solar's thin film is definitely part of the industry's early onset under performance problem.
> With monocrystalline under $1/watt, I just don't understand why big projects are still going forward with thin film.  
> I would only use thin film for partial shading, or curved, odd shaped surfaces.  (RV roofs, not MW plants)
> The bean counters are putting too much faith in warranties and spread sheets, instead of looking at real life long term performance history.  PV's been around now for several decades; there's just no excuse to keep repeating the same mistakes over again.
> 
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 5/31/2013 1:02 AM, Brian Teitelbaum wrote:
> I don’t know for sure, but the S. California installation in the article is likely a large Unisolar installation down there.
>  
> However, since the article talks about Chinese modules, which are mostly crystalline, I don’t think thin film is the major problem, if there really is one.
>  
> Not mentioned in the article is the possibility for micro-fracturing of the cells being a major problem, especially since they are sliced so thin these days, and generally shipped lying flat, which must cause a lot of flexing during transport.
>  
> Brian Teitelbaum
> AEE Solar
>  
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Carl Emerson
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 2:50 PM
> To: 'RE-wrenches'
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Defective modules
>  
> Hi there,
>  
> Hilton’s third question is important.
>  
> Are we seeing a rise in thin film failure or is this only mono and poly?
>  
> Regards
> Carl Emerson
>  
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Hilton Dier III
> Sent: 30 May 2013 1:09 a.m.
> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Defective modules
>  
> Greetings wrenches,
> 
> I'm sure many of you have seen this article in the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/business/energy-environment/solar-powers-dark-side.html?hp&_r=1&
> 
> I have already gotten an email from a panicked client asking about canceling his project.
> 
> First question: Has anybody dealt with defective modules lately, and if so, what brands?
> Second question: How much does this affect first-tier manufacturers (Trina, Suntech, Yingli...) and how much of this is "no-name" brands?
> Third question: Is this restricted to a particular technology such as thin film?
> 
> And the big question: How do we deal with this? I can imagine the fossil fuel and nuclear industries promoting this story with enthusiasm.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Hilton
> 
> -- 
> Hilton Dier III
> Renewable Energy Design
> Partner, Solar Gain LLC
> 453 East Hill Rd.
> Middlesex, VT 05602
> 
> 
> 
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