[RE-wrenches] Battery Terminal Connections (WAS GSCM-mini with Honda EM5000SX)

Mon Apr 1 14:12:12 PDT 2013

I've never seen battery connections come loose with thermal activity, as 
long as they had a regular split lock washer on.  I've gone back on our 
own work that is over 13 years old, and all is still tight. As Allan 
noted, I have seen plenty of failures due to untightened, and improperly 
crimped connections.  Belleville washers would be nice, as long as 
they're not prohibitively expensive.  We used them on certain 
connections in Utility scale work.
I still use Vaseline with great results (ala my mentor Windy Dankoff) 
but I recently started using Deka battery terminal protection in a spray 
on can for higher temp applications where the Vaseline might melt and 
run off.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/1/2013 3:00 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
> John,
> I respect your experience and your advice, and have a few questions 
> related to this post.
>
> I have seen problems in the past with failed and high-resistance 
> battery terminal connections. Usually it's the result of corrosion 
> buildup on unprotected terminals installed by a homeowner or a lowball 
> installer, but I can recall at least one instance in which one of our 
> installers didn't tighten a terminal sufficiently, or else the 
> connection loosened as you described below, and it melted the terminal 
> and caused a system failure - which we covered under our installation 
> warranty. But I have never seen advice as specific as yours on actual 
> terminal connection materials and procedure.
>
> What corrosion inhibiting grease do you recommend? I have seen 
> Vaseline used for decades, and don't think I have ever seen a failure. 
> We have used QuickCote for years, with the brush-in-can, but it's 
> tedious.
>
> I found two versions of SS Belleville washer at fastenal.com:
>     5/16" curved spring washer at 
> http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/33192?searchMode=productSearch&rfqXref=&rfqKeyword=&rfqId=&rfqLineId=
>     5/16" Belleville washer at 
> http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/71239?searchMode=productSearch&rfqXref=&rfqKeyword=&rfqId=&rfqLineId=
> The former has radial serrations, but I think the latter is what 
> you're recommending - yes?
>
> You write "locknut" below - are you recommending a standard 5/16" SS 
> nut, or a specific type of locknut like a Nylock?
>
> Thanks for going into a bit more detail for us. I'd like a bit more 
> peace of mind. I actually a bit about 14 year old banks losing one 
> string and overloading another...
> Allan
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> _Allan at positiveenergysolar.com_ <mailto:Allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
> NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder and Chief Technology Officer
> *Positive Energy, Inc.*
> 3209 Richards Lane (note new address)
> Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
> *505 424-1112*
> _www.positiveenergysolar.com_ <http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/>
>
> *
> *
>
>
> On 3/25/2013 2:49 PM, John Berdner wrote:
>>
>> I concur with William's recommendations and would add a couple of things.
>>
>> Only use stainless steel hardware for all battery connections.
>>
>> Wire brush connection surfaces prior to mating.
>>
>> Use corrosion inhibiting grease on all fittings after making them (to 
>> seal out air).
>>
>> Lastly, It is a good idea to use stainless Belleville washers (cupped 
>> spring washers) in current carrying connections.
>>
>> Bolt head, washer, Battery terminal, washer, Belleville washer, locknut.
>>
>> The spring washer maintains clamping force as the connection expands 
>> and contracts (thermally).
>>
>> They are very common place in high current bus bar connections but I 
>> rarely see them used on batteries.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> John Berdner
>>
>> General Manager, North America
>>
>> SolarEdge Technologies, Inc.
>>
>> 3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA */(*Please note of our 
>> new address.)/*
>> T: 510.498.3200, X 747
>>
>> M: 530.277.4894
>>
>> *From:*re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of 
>> *William Miller
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 25, 2013 12:41 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] GSCM-mini with Honda EM5000SX
>>
>> Eric:
>>
>> The generator-based charging may impose higher currents into the 
>> batteries than either PV charging or inverter consumption, triggering 
>> the problem.
>>
>> Melted battery terminals are not uncommon.  You must have washers 
>> under your bolt heads with lead flanges. Otherwise the bolt heads 
>> sink into the lead, loosening connections.  All mating surfaces need 
>> to be newly wired brushed just before assembly.  Battery connections 
>> need to be re-torqued annually.
>>
>> William Miller
>>
>> At 09:40 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>>
>> Larry,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply. For some reason the schematic I received from 
>> the tech at Atkinson did not show any wires being connected to pins 9 
>> & 10 and as I'm a literalist I did not make those connections. After 
>> I received your (and other) feedback I connected gen power to those 
>> pins and the AGS seemed to function fine. Within 2 days the customer 
>> called me back saying his genny was shutting off after 20 mins of 
>> runtime. I told him to disconnect or reprogram one system component 
>> at a time to find the fault source. Before a fault source was 
>> determined, he observed that two batteries in his bank were 
>> experiencing the "battery terminals melting into the battery casing" 
>> (as was texted to me by the customer). I have no idea how a GSCM 
>> interface would cause or allow an overcurrent fault at the batteries 
>> but the timing of the installation seems to indicate that the AGS is 
>> at fault. Ever heard of this before?
>>
>> Eric Stikes
>> SunHarvest Solar
>>
>>
>>     We install solar pool pumps quite frequently here in the
>>     Caribbean. We use Sunpumps - excellent company, great support.
>>     Email Joe Lines joe at sunpumps.com <mailto:joe at sunpumps.com> for
>>     design assistance, he is very helpful.
>>
>>
>>     On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:02 PM, William Korthof
>>     <wkorthof at gmail.com <mailto:wkorthof at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     A few questions.
>>
>>     I have a customer who really wants a solar-direct pool pump for
>>     his home. Medium size in-ground pool and I'd like the pump to be
>>     strong enough to lift to the solar pool panels (12 ft lift above
>>     pool level). I'd like to offer him hardware that is at least one
>>     notch above experimental beta-test. I remember the SunCentric
>>     from several years ago, but not sure how durable that turned out,
>>     and I was having trouble a vendor for it now. Any suggestions for
>>     today with some favorable track record? Or suggestions on what to
>>     avoid?
>>
>>     William Korthof
>>     Sustainable Solutions Partners
>>
>>
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