[RE-wrenches] FW: Re: Dual Radian install

Tue Aug 6 17:19:25 PDT 2013

William,

The Radian was designed to be big enough so that one inverter could handle
most residential applications, but also easy to parallel so that very large
systems could be assembled by simply repeating the same building blocks,
similar to how installers build up 100kW PV systems using string inverters.
 However, when you have systems of this size the potential available fault
currents become such that we wanted to move away from using ganged breakers
and metal sliding plates, especially when double-pole, double-throw safety
switches in a range of sizes, both automatic and manual, are commonly
available from many sources.

With larger systems, the easiest way to meet 705.12 is to install a
dedicated “Inverter Combiner” AC load center fed by a supply side tap,
similar to what is typically done with larger grid-dependent PV systems.
 It just seems far more cost effective to use standard, off-the-shelf
components which are probably on your truck already, rather than custom
sheet metal sized for every possible inverter combination.  You could use a
service-rated 6-12 panel for up to three Radian inverters, or 8-16 for
four, etc.  Repeat an identical size panel on the output to gather the
inverter outputs, then send the combined feed to the house protected load
center.  If you have a generator as a second AC source, then pick up a
third panel of the same size.

While we designed the prewired GSLC enclosures to provide a simple, quick
solution for single inverter systems, we also offer the bare GSLC for
multiple inverter systems as well as to allow full customization.  Each
GSLC has space for 18 AC or DC panel mount breakers.  In a dual inverter
system like the one you're planning, we’ve seen some cool installations
where one GSLC has been assigned to AC, and one to PV.  It works out pretty
slick.  Each GSLC comes with its own shunt, so systems with up to three
Radians can easily use the multi-channel FLEXnet DC system monitor to give
a full SOC picture for all inputs and outputs.

Each Radian inverter should have its own GSLC, and pick up two 175A
breakers per inverter.  If the Inverter Combiner boxes are a distance from
the inverter stack or out of visual range, then you will need to install
50A AC breakers for the appropriate inputs and outputs.  Me personally, I’d
install these breakers at the inverter in all systems, as it gives a
positive disconnect directly related to the inverter directly above – good
peace of mind for anyone who comes later.  There should be a finger’s width
of space between every pair of inverters, to allow clearance for the door
swing.

Always update the firmware, as we’re constantly expanding the capabilities
and features.  You don’t need a computer or internet connection on the site
if you download the latest firmware for both the inverter and the MATE3,
unzip it and copy to an SD card before going out into the field.  Update
the MATE3 first.

I hope this helps, and thanks everyone for the good feedback.

Philip Undercuffler
Director, Product Management and Strategy
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4306 office  |  425.319.2821 mobile
www.outbackpower.com

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Allan Sindelar <
allan at positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:

>  Wrenches,
> Robin at Midnite read my post to William and added the following off list:
>
> Allan, thanks for adding us into the Wrenches discussion. We do have
> E-Panels set up for single as well as dual Radians. I do not think OutBack
> does? We have a Master/Slave set up where the Master has the AC bypass set
> up for two inverters. OutBack makes you buy an additional outboard transfer
> switch. We also have the large battery combiner made for connecting either
> two Radians or four SMA Sunny Islands. OutBack does not have this.****
>
> We also have a 2 piece back plate that holds all of this stuff. OutBack
> doesn’t.****
>
> The installers I have worked with prefer the MidNite E-Panel over the
> OutBack since you can actually get to the breakers on the MidNite. It is a
> bit less expensive also.****
>
> ** **Thanks, Robin****
>
> **I would also suggest a couple of other things... with four Radians, you
> need to be able to handle 1,400 amps of DC current (each Radian uses 2 2/0
> cables per pole and two 175A breakers). Robin has worked with us to develop
> an 850 A DC disconnect system (four SI5048 with 125A DC breakers and one
> Radian at 350 A), and may be able to assist with this greater need.
> **
>
> **Also, you mention a 200A DC recombiner - I assume you are aware of the
> 60/80A limitation per controller, and that they can't be paralleled on the
> input side.No reply needed.
> Allan****
>
> -------- Original Message -------- ****
>
> *Subject: *
>
> Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Radian install****
>
> *Date: *
>
> Mon, 05 Aug 2013 14:14:47 -0600****
>
> *From: *
>
> Allan Sindelar <allan at positiveenergysolar.com><allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
> ****
>
> *Reply-To: *
>
> Allan at positiveenergysolar.com, RE-wrenches
> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>***
> *
>
> *To: *
>
> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org><re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> ****
>
> William,
> We have done three or four single-inverter Radian systems, always with an
> E-Panel, rather than the GSLC. We like the E-Panel, but can't compare them
> directly. You might want to compare the two products in your designs.
> Allan****
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> *Allan at positiveenergysolar.com* <Allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder and Chief Technology Officer
> *Positive Energy, Inc.*, a Certified B Corporation
> TM
>
> 3209 Richards Lane
> Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
> *505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell*
> *www.positiveenergysolar.com* <http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/>****
>
>  ****
>
> On 8/5/2013 1:50 PM, William Miller wrote:****
>
>  Friends:****
>
> I am bidding installation of two Radian inverters. Anyone out there done
> this yet?  Got any advice?****
>
> Thanks in advance,****
>
> William Miller****
>
>  ****
>
> 17395 Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422****
>
> *www.millersolar.com* <http://www.millersolar.com/>****
>
> 805-438-5600 voice*****
>
> *Note: above number replaces cell number****
>
>
>
>
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