[RE-wrenches] Generac Ecogen (was RE: generator suggestions)

Sun Jul 7 10:35:31 PDT 2013

Jay –

I’ve done this before with the Kohler RES series to eliminate the phantom in auto-mode, BUT stressing to all that the generator could start automatically without notice – especially to the generator tech. As always, best to disconnect the starting battery when servicing. 

Kirk Herander

VT Solar, LLC

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM Certified Inaugural Certificant

NYSERDA-eligible Installer

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:58 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generac Ecogen (was RE: generator suggestions)

Hi Kirk 

One trick I learned from my generator guy is to hook up the remote start to the manual on position

This bypass's the auto position and the extra load on the battery

Best I can tell only difference on the Koehler anyway is how fast it starts. On auto right now

On manual a few seconds delay. 

Jay

Peltz power

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 6, 2013, at 10:46 AM, "Kirk Herander" <kirk at vtsolar.com> wrote:

Alan and others,

I have an off-grid customer looking at the Ecogen. Now that 6 months have passed since your comments, can you tell us more of the pros and cons of this unit? 

I read somewhere the phantom load of the controller (and charger?) is 20 to 50 watts total. Is it just the controller which needs to stay awake? Is there a separate charger for the battery, meaning no alternator / rectifier direct from the engine? Regardless,  it seems dumb to me that a generator designed for off-grid would mandate a phantom load to operate. For that reason, it seems no more appealing than the Kohler R series. Is there an on-board hour-meter? Thanks. The brochure does not address these questions.

Kirk Herander

VT Solar, LLC

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM Certified Inaugural Certificant

NYSERDA-eligible Installer

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:21 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] generator suggestions

Ray,
Everything has changed. The Kohler 6.5RMY and the Onan 6.5 Commercial were wonderful units, but also both flathead twins, eventually discontinued for efficiency and emissions reasons, as I came to understand. Also, the American residential market was (and remains) almost exclusively about home standby, not off grid, and the major manufacturers went in that direction. Home standby is a competitive market, and generators aren't expected to run for many hours over their useful life, so internals can be cheapened and features to make them more like a home appliance are added. Many of us have customer horror stories about home standby units used off grid.

I have written favorably about the Generac EcoGen here and in Home Power, as it's pretty much currently the only under-10K unit designed for off grid use. I have now had two at my home - we had a fire in May that took out an outbuilding and the gennie, and I replaced it with the same model, because it had performed well and there was nothing else to compete with it. Always starts, minimal maintenance, exceeds its rated output on occasion, doesn't require a separate enclosure, and is sealed against mice. Oh, and very quiet. So far the only disadvantage is the need for either an AC feed for the 8W phantom load to keep the controller awake, but a PV module and small controller on the starting battery will handle that one of these days. It's not just one of their standard units with different bells and whistles, but has hardened valves, lower (2,500) rpm, longer maintenance intervals, and other reliability features.

I know all about Generac's otherwise-poor reputation, and am willing to stick my neck out about this model, as I think it's the best we currently have in this size range. My understanding is that the Propane Reliability Council (or some similar organizational name) was involved with sponsoring development of an LP gennie tough enough to handle off grid demands. They first approached Kohler, who turned them down, and then worked with Generac (all this is hearsay; don't quote me on it).
Allan

Allan Sindelar
 <mailto:Allan at positiveenergysolar.com> Allan at positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder and Chief Technology Officer
Positive Energy, Inc.
3209 Richards Lane (note new address)
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112
www.positiveenergysolar.com <http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/>  

On 1/30/2013 10:41 AM, Ray Walters wrote:

Hi Randy and all;

I definitely like the water cooled 1800 rpm machines too, but for regular off grid homes, they just are way out of the budget.  We jumped on the inverter generator band wagon for a while, but had the same load issues Allan described.  (Microwave kicks the breaker, and you're running the genny for hours for nothing)  Many customers have turned to the contractor portables with equally disappointing results, but often they already have the genny, and we just provide an inlet box and cord.  
The Generac looks like a good idea, I wish Onan or Kohler would build one. Kohler used to make a 6.5 Kw that fit the one inverter household fairly well.

Ray Walters

THeOn 1/30/2013 8:55 AM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:

Randy,  

I concur, the Cummins/Onan generators are built well and are reliable. They provide a 1 year, 1000 hour warranty for off grid use when a RE system is installed for primary power. 

We install lots of Magnum Energy inverters with AGS modules in RV's. What sold me on the Onan's is having seen many RV generators (3600, 2880 and 2400 RPM), some with several thousand hours, still operating with tight frequency and voltage control, no leaks, easy starting, etc.

Larry Crutcher

Starlight Solar Power Systems

On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:52 AM, Randy Brooks wrote:

Todd, 

We don't sell or install generators, but the only one I recommend for permanent installations is the Cummins/Onan, 1,800 rpm, propane fueled.  All others have failed early.

Good luck,

Randy Brooks

Brooks Solar, Inc.

Solar Power for People

140 Columbia View

Chelan, WA  98816

509-682-9646

Randy at BrooksSolar.com

www.BrooksSolar.com <http://www.BrooksSolar.com/> 

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