[RE-wrenches] Defective modules-American crap?

Wed May 29 10:05:32 PDT 2013

I find that at least out here in Hawaii, a substantial portion of the PV
buying market really doesn't care what goes on their roof or who puts it up;
they just want it now (before the grid gets too saturated and unable to
accommodate much more PV) and they want it cheap.  Being in this business
for 35 years, I've concluded that warranties are mostly smoke and mirrors as
far as 10 year or longer coverages, whether coming from manufacturers or
integrators.  How many of you bother to put anything away to cover future
warranty liabilities?  Doesn't happen in our business, whether a modco,
inverter manufacturer or integrator.  On the flip side, the fact that the
costs of going PV have gone down so much means that even if mods and
inverters have to be replaced at some point in the future, it shouldn't cost
an arm and a leg.

My theory is that those manufacturers who are mostly or wholly owned
subsidiaries of larger, deeper pocketed parent companies are more likely to
be left standing in the years to come.  But then, look at BP's decision to
pull out of the PV sphere several years ago and the Schott group's decision
to bail last June.  Maybe all bets are off?

And note that in that New York Times piece of today:  Non-Chinese
manufacturers have had quality problems as well. The defective panels
installed on the Los Angeles area warehouse, for instance, were made by an
American manufacturer. A reporter was granted access to the project on the
condition that the parties' identities not be disclosed because of a
confidential legal settlement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/business/energy-environment/solar-powers-d
ark-side.html?pagewanted=all
<http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/business/energy-environment/solar-powers-
dark-side.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2&> &_r=2& 

Names need to be made public for the good of all concerned.

marco

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan
Sindelar
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 5:56 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Defective modules-Chinese crap?

On more than one occasion in the last year or so I have told a potential
customer that with the possible exception of Sunpower, and perhaps
(vertically-integrated and long-established) Kyocera, I'm not confident that
any manufacturer will be still around in 25 years to honor the 25-year
warranty that all manufacturers routinely offer. This is also one of my
points when I do public presentations (my focus is always on off
grid/battery-based applications). It's partly a cautionary note about going
for the cheapest price, and the effects of the unsustainable drop in module
prices on the global PV industry. 

It's not just Chinese modules, either. We had BP replace entire arrays of
160s under warranty when 25% showed the familiar hot-spot failure. 

There is essentially no way to know what's inside of a PV module. The
NYTimes article is right on: the emperor has no clothes.  Better to tell the
world about the naked emperor sooner than later, so that just possibly the
shift can begin, from cheapest overall cost-per-watt to something akin to a
system that will last. But I'm not holding my breath: as long as commercial
systems are based on short-term third-party financial gain - accelerated
depreciation and the 30% federal tax credit - there's no incentive for
systems to be built to last, or to cost more than whatever is cheapest up
front. 

Have you reviewed the list of deceased solar companies?
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Rest-in-Peace-The-List-of-Decea
sed-Solar-Companies

This could turn into quite a rant, so <Rant: OFF>. We all just need to be
careful what we ask for, because we might get it.

Allan

Allan Sindelar
 <mailto:Allan at positiveenergysolar.com> Allan at positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder and Chief Technology Officer
Positive Energy, Inc.
3209 Richards Lane (note new address)
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112
www.positiveenergysolar.com <http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/>  

On 5/29/2013 9:01 AM, frenergy wrote:

Hilton,

        I have not been experiencing anything unusual in failure
rates.....of course I have not caved to the up-front lower cost tease of
Chinese PVs and have only sold USA made PVs built by manus in biz for
decades.  This choice has lost me only a few customers, maybe now they will
come back.  It seems interesting to me that you would mention 3 Chinese
companies as 'first tier'.  When I think of first tier I think of companies
that have been around for much longer than that.

        You are absolutely right though, as an industry, "we" need to
identify this problem and deal with it now, like now, lest we go the path of
solar thermal in the 80's.  Possibly the solar bandwagon has become
overloaded?

Bill

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Hilton Dier III <mailto:hiltondier at gmail.com>  

To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org 

Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:08 AM

Subject: [RE-wrenches] Defective modules

Greetings wrenches,

I'm sure many of you have seen this article in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/business/energy-environment/solar-powers-d
ark-side.html?hp
<http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/business/energy-environment/solar-powers-
dark-side.html?hp&_r=1&> &_r=1&

I have already gotten an email from a panicked client asking about canceling
his project.

First question: Has anybody dealt with defective modules lately, and if so,
what brands?
Second question: How much does this affect first-tier manufacturers (Trina,
Suntech, Yingli...) and how much of this is "no-name" brands?
Third question: Is this restricted to a particular technology such as thin
film?

And the big question: How do we deal with this? I can imagine the fossil
fuel and nuclear industries promoting this story with enthusiasm.

Thanks,

Hilton

-- 
Hilton Dier III
Renewable Energy Design
Partner, Solar Gain LLC
453 East Hill Rd.
Middlesex, VT 05602

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