[RE-wrenches] Stainless Steel Cable Ties
Ray Walters
ray at solarray.com
Thu Apr 25 09:29:40 PDT 2013
Black UV resistant ties only last a few years at altitude in New Mexico
and Colorado. UV is brutal, and causes PVC conduit to discolor within 2
years. The zips will actually hold for 10+ years, but aren't really
strong. I've come back on my own work, and just yanked on them, and
popped them right off.
They just get very brittle. If on a tracker that is constantly pulling
on them, they'll be trash on the ground after less than 5 years. I use
wire loom clamps with rubber insulators in those cases, and then the zip
ties just hold the bundle of wires together, but aren't actually
securing the wire to the structure.
I looked into this recently for a large PV installation company and I
found that Nylon 6.6 is probably the best, but the specified design life
of the zip when exposed to UV was 6 to 10 years. We found a nylon zip
rated to over 15 years, but it was special order and cost something like
$2/ ea (cough, cough)
I like the idea of SS ties, but they are not the same as the SS clips as
mentioned. The clips have curved edges that won't cut into the
cables. USE wire actually is pretty easy to cut into, and I've seen a
few shorts due to metal cutting into it. ( module edges, romex type
connectors, etc) I would wrap the wire with a thick electrical tape
before zip tieing with SS ties. There is a heavy mil pipe wrap tape (UV
and underground rated) that plumbers use on gas lines.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 4/25/2013 9:48 AM, Solar Energy Solutions wrote:
> We have used black cable ties since 1987 to strap sensor wire to PVC
> pipe for our solar pool heating systems. I was just at a system we
> installed in 1989 mounted on an East facing roof yesterday. The
> exposed 20g sensor wire still had intact and plyable sheilding and the
> black cable ties still firmly attached and not brittle. We have other
> similiar scenes with systems mounted on South facing roof were the
> black cable ties are still in tact under full solar exposure... for
> Portland Oregon. Yanking on some of these cable ties sometimes break
> the ancient tie. But, more often than not, as yesterday, we have to
> break out our wire cutters to accomplish this task.
> Thus, I gotta think that black cable ties under a PV array which are
> not exposed to any of the heat or sun we usually subject them
> to... are going to last an even longer time.
> *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi*
> President
> *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.*
> Since 1987,
> Moving Portland and Beyond
> to an Environmentally Sustainable Future.
> *503-238-4502*
> *http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/ *
> *"Better one's House too little one day*
> *than too big all the Year after."*
>
> *From:* Chris Mason <cometenergysystems at gmail.com>
> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:12 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Stainless Steel Cable Ties
>
> Make sure you use black cable ties, the white ones fail in UV from
> sunlight.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:06 AM, August Goers <august at luminalt.com
> <mailto:august at luminalt.com>> wrote:
>
> I too share the concern about standard plastic zip ties. However,
> I started in the industry in 1997 and have yet to see zip ties
> that are falling apart. Does anyone on the list have firsthand
> experience with failed plastic zip ties?
> Best,
> August
> August Goers
> Luminalt Energy Corporation
> 1320 Potrero Avenue
> San Francisco, CA 94110
> m: 415.559.1525
> o: 415.641.4000
> august at luminalt.com <mailto:august at luminalt.com>
> *From:*re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of
> *Solarguy
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 25, 2013 7:08 AM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches'
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Stainless Steel Cable Ties
> We have used 8" flat SS ties for years and I have no concern
> about the wear on the conductor insulation. They are long enough
> to circle a standard Unirac rail and several wires leaving 1" or
> so tag end. Needle nose pliers work to twist the end and snug down
> the tie as tight as you're comfortable with. The metal tie, once
> bent around the corners cannot stretch any tighter, unlike nylon,
> regardless of how tightly you twist the pliers. As for the edges,
> quality ties are not sharp. Or cheap.
> Jim Duncan
> North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
> http://www.ntrei.com/
> NABCEP PV 031310-57
> TECL-27398
> ntrei at 1scom.net <mailto:ntrei at 1scom.net>
> 817.917.0527
> NABCEP Logo
> *From:*re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Jason Szumlanski
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:08 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Stainless Steel Cable Ties
> There was a recent thread about wire management. Heyco SunBundler
> ties have a vinyl coating. I recommended the clips from PV Racking
> that are stainless steel coated in rubber. I've had the same
> concern, and both of these seem like good solutions to me.
> *Jason Szumlanski*//
> /Fafco Solar/
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Benn Kilburn - DayStar Renewable
> Energy <benn at daystarsolar.ca <mailto:benn at daystarsolar.ca>> wrote:
> Wrenches,
> I searched the archives, but came up with nothing on this....
> I have found a good supplier for reasonably priced stainless steel
> cable ties and have been using them in place of black nylon cable
> ties for supporting cables, PV wires and micro-inverter wires to
> the mounting rails and such. I feel better knowing the wires
> under the array are supported this way rather than with
> plastic/nylon cable ties, for which I tried but cannot get a
> manufacturer to guarantee will last 20+yrs.
> A colleague is questioning this method (SS ties) with the concern
> that over time the (albeit small) movement in the wires and/or
> expansion/contraction of the rails could result in the stainless
> steel cable ties cutting thru the wire's insulation and then.....
> I have heard this concern before from others as well.
> The way I see it is that the very popular stainless steel "S"
> cable clips that hold wires to module frames have comparable equal
> sharp edges as well and would pose the same risk, but there
> doesn't seem to be any concern there.
> I am wondering who else is using SS ties in place of nylon ones,
> and if you are taking additional steps to protect the wire's
> insulation from the SS ties?
> Common sense abides, meaning don't wrap a wire around the SS ties
> so that the wire has tension on the sharp edge of the tie. Flat
> edge contact with the wire only, the same way that you wouldn't
> run a wire across/around a sharp cut edge of a rail or anything else.
> Thanks,
> benn
>
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> --
> Chris Mason
> President, Comet Systems Ltd
> http://www.cometenergysystems.com/
> Cell: 264.235.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
>
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