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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Black UV resistant ties only last a few
years at altitude in New Mexico and Colorado. UV is brutal, and
causes PVC conduit to discolor within 2 years. The zips will
actually hold for 10+ years, but aren't really strong. I've come
back on my own work, and just yanked on them, and popped them
right off.<br>
They just get very brittle. If on a tracker that is constantly
pulling on them, they'll be trash on the ground after less than 5
years. I use wire loom clamps with rubber insulators in those
cases, and then the zip ties just hold the bundle of wires
together, but aren't actually securing the wire to the structure.<br>
I looked into this recently for a large PV installation company
and I found that Nylon 6.6 is probably the best, but the specified
design life of the zip when exposed to UV was 6 to 10 years. We
found a nylon zip rated to over 15 years, but it was special order
and cost something like $2/ ea (cough, cough)<br>
I like the idea of SS ties, but they are not the same as the SS
clips as mentioned. The clips have curved edges that won't cut
into the cables. USE wire actually is pretty easy to cut into,
and I've seen a few shorts due to metal cutting into it. ( module
edges, romex type connectors, etc) I would wrap the wire with a
thick electrical tape before zip tieing with SS ties. There is a
heavy mil pipe wrap tape (UV and underground rated) that plumbers
use on gas lines. <br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 4/25/2013 9:48 AM, Solar Energy Solutions wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1366904911.22503.YahooMailNeo@web31809.mail.mud.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial,
helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div><span>We have used black cable ties since 1987 to strap
sensor wire to PVC pipe for our solar pool heating systems.
I was just at a system we installed in 1989 mounted on an
East facing roof yesterday. The exposed 20g sensor wire
still had intact and plyable sheilding and the black cable
ties still firmly attached and not brittle. We have other
similiar scenes with systems mounted on South facing roof
were the black cable ties are still in tact under full solar
exposure... for Portland Oregon. Yanking on some of these
cable ties sometimes break the ancient tie. But, more often
than not, as yesterday, we have to break out our wire
cutters to accomplish this task.</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thus, I gotta think that black cable ties under a PV array
which are not exposed to any of the heat or sun we
usually subject them to... are going to last an even longer
time. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><b><font face="arial">Andrew Koyaanisqatsi</font></b></div>
<div><font face="arial">President</font></div>
<div><b><font face="arial">Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.</font></b></div>
<div><font face="arial">Since 1987,</font></div>
<div><font face="arial">Moving Portland and Beyond </font></div>
<div><font face="arial">to an Environmentally Sustainable
Future.</font></div>
<div><font face="arial"><b>503-238-4502</b></font></div>
<div><b><font face="System"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank">http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/</a> </font></b></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="comic sans ms"><b>"Better one's House too
little one day</b></font></div>
<div><font face="comic sans ms"><b>than too big all the Year
after."</b></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times,
serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Chris
Mason <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cometenergysystems@gmail.com"><cometenergysystems@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
RE-wrenches <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:12 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [RE-wrenches] Stainless Steel Cable Ties<br>
</font> </div>
<div class="y_msg_container"><br>
<meta content="off" http-equiv="x-dns-prefetch-control">
<div id="yiv2031156226">
<div dir="ltr">Make sure you use black cable ties, the
white ones fail in UV from sunlight.</div>
<div class="yiv2031156226gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="yiv2031156226gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 25,
2013 at 11:06 AM, August Goers <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:august@luminalt.com" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:august@luminalt.com">august@luminalt.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204,
204, 204); border-left-width: 1px;
border-left-style: solid;"
class="yiv2031156226gmail_quote">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;">I too share the concern about
standard plastic zip ties. However, I
started in the industry in 1997 and have
yet to see zip ties that are falling
apart. Does anyone on the list have
firsthand experience with failed plastic
zip ties?</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;">Best,</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;">August</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;">August Goers</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;">Luminalt Energy Corporation</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;">1320 Potrero Avenue</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;">San Francisco, CA 94110</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;">m: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="" rel="nofollow">415.559.1525</a></span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;">o: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="" rel="nofollow">415.641.4000</a></span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal">
<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 11pt;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:august@luminalt.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:august@luminalt.com">august@luminalt.com</a></span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size:
11pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium;
border-style: solid none none;
border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223)
currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt
0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Solarguy</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2031156226h5"><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 25, 2013
7:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches]
Stainless Steel Cable Ties</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2031156226h5">
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 14pt;">We have used 8” flat
SS ties for years and I have no
concern about the wear on the
conductor insulation. They are long
enough to circle a standard Unirac
rail and several wires leaving 1” or
so tag end. Needle nose pliers work to
twist the end and snug down the tie as
tight as you’re comfortable with. The
metal tie, once bent around the
corners cannot stretch any tighter,
unlike nylon, regardless of how
tightly you twist the pliers. As for
the edges, quality ties are not sharp.
Or cheap.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 11pt;">Jim Duncan</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal">
<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 11pt;">North Texas
Renewable Energy Inc</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 11pt;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ntrei.com/"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.ntrei.com/</a>
</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 11pt;">NABCEP PV 031310-57</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 11pt;">TECL-27398</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 11pt;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ntrei@1scom.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:ntrei@1scom.net">ntrei@1scom.net</a>
</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 11pt;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href=""
rel="nofollow">817.917.0527</a></span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 11pt;"><img
moz-do-not-send="true" alt="NABCEP
Logo" height="160" width="216"
border="0"></span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 26pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
font-size: 14pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 14pt;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 14pt;"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Szumlanski<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 25, 2013
8:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches</span><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches]
Stainless Steel Cable Ties</span></div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span>There
was a recent thread about wire
management. Heyco SunBundler ties
have a vinyl coating. I
recommended the clips from PV
Racking that are stainless steel
coated in rubber. I've had the
same concern, and both of these
seem like good solutions to me.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 6pt;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><b><span
style="color: gray;
font-size: 10pt;">Jason
Szumlanski</span></b><i><span
style="color: gray;
font-size: 10pt;"> </span></i><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><i><span
style="color: gray;
font-size: 10pt;">Fafco
Solar</span></i><span
style="color: gray; font-size:
8pt;"> </span><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal">On
Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Benn
Kilburn - DayStar Renewable Energy
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:benn@daystarsolar.ca"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:benn@daystarsolar.ca">benn@daystarsolar.ca</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Wrenches,</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I
searched the archives, but
came up with nothing on this….</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I
have found a good supplier for
reasonably priced stainless
steel cable ties and have been
using them in place of black
nylon cable ties for
supporting cables, PV wires
and micro-inverter wires to
the mounting rails and such.
I feel better knowing the
wires under the array are
supported this way rather than
with plastic/nylon cable ties,
for which I tried but cannot
get a manufacturer to
guarantee will last 20+yrs.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;">A
colleague is questioning this
method (SS ties) with the
concern that over time the
(albeit small) movement in the
wires and/or
expansion/contraction of the
rails could result in the
stainless steel cable ties
cutting thru the wire's
insulation and then…..</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I
have heard this concern before
from others as well.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;">The
way I see it is that the very
popular stainless steel "S"
cable clips that hold wires to
module frames have comparable
equal sharp edges as well and
would pose the same risk, but
there doesn't seem to be any
concern there.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;">I
am wondering who else is
using SS ties in place of
nylon ones, and if you are
taking additional steps to
protect the wire's
insulation from the SS ties?</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Common
sense abides, meaning don't
wrap a wire around the SS ties
so that the wire has tension
on the sharp edge of the tie.
Flat edge contact with the
wire only, the same way that
you wouldn't run a wire
across/around a sharp cut edge
of a rail or anything else.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;">Thanks,</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10.5pt;">benn</span></div>
</div>
</div>
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class="yiv2031156226MsoNormal"><br>
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