[RE-wrenches] wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524Compatibility question
John Berdner
John.Berdner at solaredge.com
Fri Feb 1 07:42:37 PST 2013
John:
If doing an AC coupled system with SB/SI there a couple things to consider.
1) SI is 120 Vac only and SB and grid are both 240. You can get 2 SI’s but that is pricey. SMA now makes an autoformer (finally) but it is really big and pretty expensive (hey Robin/Bob there is an opportunity here). Too bad they don’t make a 240 Vac SI and no longer make the old 1800 which had a 120 Vac output.
A couple of ways to wire this (ASCII Draw, >> indicate power flow, <> indicates bidirectional):
PV >> SB >> Protected Load Center <> Auto former <> SI <> Xfer switch <>Grid.
| |
| >> Loads | <<< Generator
Or alternatively like this:
PV >> SB >> Protected Load Center <> Xfer switch <>Auto former <> SI << Generator
| |
| >> Loads | <> Grid
A couple of tradeoffs here:
In case 1 the downside is that the output of the SI is 120 Vac to the grid = imbalance. All your grid tied PV flows through the auto-former with the associated losses. The upside is that your protected loads are protected by the SI which has a very fast (transparent) transfer.
In case 2 the downside is that the loads are not protected so you will see an interruption when the xfer switch transfers. With a manual xfer switch this interruption could be a long time ☺ The upside is the PV is connected directly to the grid @ 240Vac normally with no autoformer losses
If the SI is already installed you probably are doing something like this already.
To connect in a generator you have to understand the SI’s grid input programming. The SI has only one physical grid “input”. I say “input” because both side of an SI are bi-directional and can be either and input or an output depending on power flow. If you go with Case 1 The problem is that you need to set the current limit high enough for the SB so it can grid feed. If your SB is larger than your generator you can overload the generator when in backup mode. You also need to allow power flow out of the grid input which you don’t want with a small generator. It is also nice to have wider voltage and frequency limits when operating with the generator. Fortunately there are 2 logical inputs for the single grid input and a digital generator mode selector input (signal level) that is used to switch between the two. Each of these logical inputs can have different parameters, i.e. one for grid and one for generator. You provide a feedback a signal to the digital input mode selector to tell the SI which set of parameters to use.
There are several ways to do the mode selection ranging from a switch (light switch or toggle switch) near the SI to select modes to an aux contact on a full auto xfer relay.
For a low case bulletproof approach use a 3 phase manual xfer switch and use the unused third power pole to do your digital input mode switching. This is what I have at my house. The grid feeds one side of the manual Xfer switch and I have an SO cord on the other side to plug in to a generator for charging during a prolonged outage.
Feel free to contact me either online or offline if you have questions.
Best Regards,
John Berdner
General Manager, North America
[cid:image001.jpg at 01CE004E.75760140]
SolarEdge Technologies, Inc.
3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA (*Please note of our new address.)
T: 510.498.3200, X 747
M: 530.277.4894
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of john
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 4:12 AM
To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524 Compatibility question
John,
Thanks for that bit of information. I have a customer with a SB5000 and recently added a Sunny Island with 8 L16 batteries. This answers their question as to what they will do in an extended outage with no sun. I wanted to suggest a small backup generator but wasn't sure how it would work. Now I can install the cord and set the sunny island for a Honda 2000i, several of which I keep on hand for emergency power for us and our customers.
John Blittersdorf
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer tm
Central Vermont Solar & Wind LLC
104 River Street
Rutland, VT 05701
802-770-8625 Cell
802-747-0577 Office
802-773-0924 Fax
Mark your calendar: SolarFest 2013, July 12, 13 & 14 www.SolarFest.org<http://www.solarfest.org/>
-----Original Message-----
From: John Berdner <John.Berdner at solaredge.com<mailto:John.Berdner at solaredge.com>>
To: Allan <Allan at positiveenergysolar.com<mailto:Allan at positiveenergysolar.com>>; RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Sent: Thu, Jan 31, 2013 8:20 pm
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524 Compatibility question
SMA Sunny Island also does this but also discharges battery in parallel with the generator to create a “virtual generator” that is larger than the actual generator.
Just set the max generator current and it does the rest.
Best Regards,
John Berdner
General Manager, North America
[cid:image001.jpg at 01CE004E.75760140]
SolarEdge Technologies, Inc.
3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA (*Please note of our new address.)
T: 510.498.3200, X 747
M: 530.277.4894
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org?>] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 2:14 PM
To: William Miller
Cc: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524 Compatibility question
William,
Yes, that's my understanding. Outback acknowledged this to me years ago.
Allan
Allan Sindelar
Allan at positiveenergysolar.com<mailto:Allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder and Chief Technology Officer
Positive Energy, Inc.
3209 Richards Lane (note new address)
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112
www.positiveenergysolar.com<http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/>
On 1/29/2013 9:28 PM, William Miller wrote:
Allan:
Could it be that the SW systems are protecting the generator with Generator Support, and the Outback inverters are not?
William Miller
At 07:18 PM 1/29/2013, you wrote:
This is going back several years...
The Outback VFX series lacks the tight input current regulation of the SW series, so the max AC amps in is really just a suggestion. In many cases (and especially with these small generators) we want to set the max amps in as high as possible to minimize charging time and maximize C/rate. Yet a surge load can momentarily exceed the max amps setting.
I have observed that the Honda inverter/generators have a quite sensitive AC output breaker, that will sometimes trip if a surge load (such as a refrigerator) comes on during a charge cycle set close to the generator's capacity. This incident was specific to a Honda 3000i. In contrast, Yamaha's EF3000iSE will lug when overloaded - not good for the generator, but also not likely to trip the output breaker.
This is a different issue than was being discussed, but fits your question.
Allan
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