[RE-wrenches] Enphase and Romex
Kent Osterberg
kent at coveoregon.com
Thu Nov 1 09:55:08 PDT 2012
The NEC 100 definition for a wet location includes "unprotected
locations exposed to the weather." Obviously the roof is a wet location.
NEC 334.1(A) says NM cable is permitted in normally dry locations and
334.1(B) says it shall not be used in damp or wet locations. That said,
inspectors here have allowed a short length (up to 18" stub) of NM cable
through conduit to a j-box or outlet on the roof provided that the box
and cover are appropriate for the location. This is a topic that you
should probably address with the inspector when your project permit is
pulled. Don't expect everyone to accept this practice. You might need a
j-box in the attic to change wire type to NMC cable or THWN wire.
Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com
On 11/1/2012 5:07 AM, Chris Mason wrote:
> I remember from a project we were doing that required Romex that it is
> listed for damp locations such as outdoor areas likely to see some
> rain, wet locations are literally underwater rated and designate
> conduits running underground likely to flood.
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Glenn Burt <glenn.burt at glbcc.com
> <mailto:glenn.burt at glbcc.com>> wrote:
>
> Seems if the Romex is not listed as being suitable for use in a
> wet location, having not been tested by UL for that situation, it
> would not be suitable for use in that environment, regardless of
> how its internal conductors are rated.
>
> Glenn Burt
>
> *From:*Ray Walters [mailto:ray at solarray.com
> <mailto:ray at solarray.com>]
> *Sent:* Friday, October 26, 2012 10:28 PM
> *To:* glenn.burt at glbcc.com <mailto:glenn.burt at glbcc.com>; RE-wrenches
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Romex
>
> So if the Romex is loaded with THHN/THWN (damp/wet rated), and no
> where does the outer covering of the Romex itself get exposed to
> the wet location, that should be sufficient?
>
> Ray Walters
>
> On 10/26/2012 7:45 PM, Glenn Burt wrote:
>
> 300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Above Grade.
>
> Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the
> interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet
> location. Insulated conductors and cables installed in
> raceways in wet locations abovegrade shall comply with 310.8(C).
>
> "Section 300.9, new for the 2008 Code and similar to 300.5(B),
> draws attention to the inside of all raceways and enclosures
> installed in an abovegrade wet location. The inside of these
> raceways and enclosures now definitively requires conductors
> and cables suitable for use in wet locations in accordance
> with to 310.8." -- Explanatory note
>
> 310.8 Locations.
>
> (C) Wet Locations. Insulated conductors and cables used in wet
> locations shall comply with one of the following:
>
> (1) Be moisture-impervious metal-sheathed
>
> (2) Be types MTW, RHW, RHW-2, TW, THW, THW-2, THHW,
> THWN, THWN-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW
>
> (3) Be of a type listed for use in wet locations
>
> *From:*re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf
> Of *benn kilburn
> *Sent:* Friday, October 26, 2012 2:03 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Romex
>
> Glenn/Jason,
>
> So you wouldn't use romex to feed an exterior outlet on an
> outside wall, or to any outside lights???
>
> Canadian Electrical Code's (CE Code) definitions...
>
> _wet location_ -a location in which liquids may drip, splash,
> or flow on or against electrical equipment.
>
> _Damp location_--an exterior or interior location that is
> normally or periodically subject to condensation of moisture
> in, on, or, adjacent to electrical equipment an includes
> partially protected locations under canopies, parquees, roofed
> open porches, and similar locations.
>
> _Dry location _--a location not normally subject to dampness,
> but that may include a location subject to temporary dampness
> as in the case of a building under construction, provided that
> ventilation is adequate to prevent an accumulation of moisture.
>
> If inside your attic is considered a "wet location", then you
> have other issues. Are you sure the NEC's definition of 'wet
> location' is relating to the location of the romex?
>
> I just spoke to one of my inspectors and he sees no issue with
> entering the bottom of a soladeck with romex.
>
> On the grounding/bonding, I have been using the bare wire in
> the romex for the enphase system ground (within the enphase
> cable) and running a #6 from the mod frames and rails into the
> soladeck and along side the romex back to the panelboard.
>
> I need to get myself a copy of your NEC so I can be on the
> same page as you guys. I hear it is written in a way that is
> much easier to interpret than the CE Code, which is written in
> a very legal jargon.
>
> Cheers,
>
> benn
>
> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
>
> www.daystarsolar.ca <http://www.daystarsolar.ca> * Ph:
> 780-906-7807 <tel:780-906-7807>
>
> Construction Electrician Solar Photovoltaic Systems Certified
>
> Certificate # 0007S
>
> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>
> On 25/10/12 9:37 AM, "Glenn Burt" <glenn.burt at glbcc.com
> <mailto:glenn.burt at glbcc.com>> wrote:
>
> Soladeck on the rooftop places it in an environment that is
> considered 'wet'.
>
> I don't think Romex is listed for use in a wet environment.
>
> This would force you to use the proposed jbox in the attic for
> the transition location.
>
> I also understood that you could combine the EGC and GEC into
> a single conductor as long as it is continuous or irreversibly
> spliced, as part of the '08 code.
>
> -Glenn Burt
>
> *From:*re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Jason Szumlanski
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 25, 2012 9:13 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Romex
>
> I'm sure this has been covered, but I could not find it in the
> archives.
>
> We are considering using Romex in the attic for the first
> time. My plan was to use the new Enphase coupler to connect
> the trunk cable to Type TC-ER, enter a Soladeck passthrough
> box on the roof into a junction box in the attic where I would
> make the transition to 10/3 Romex. I'm hung up on the GEC
> going back to the service panel. Any suggestions?
>
> By the way, we are on NEC 2008, and in most cases there is
> also a requirement for an additional grounding electrode per
> NEC 690.47(D) (that shouldn't really relate to my issue).
>
> *Jason Szumlanski*//
>
> /Fafco Solar/
>
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> --
> Chris Mason
> President, Comet Systems Ltd
> www.cometenergysystems.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com>
> Cell: 264.235.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
>
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