[RE-wrenches] De-Sulphators. The last word?

Tom Duffy Tom at thesolar.biz
Fri Jun 1 09:56:03 PDT 2012


I have to agree with Larry… a properly sized, designed and charged series battery bank does not need “magic elixir” and if you add it to an old poorly designed bank it still will be poorly designed, even if you could fix the hard sulphation the problem would re-appear. I have never seen this stuff work however in my 45 years in the battery business.

Kind Regards

Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer

Toll Free 888-895-8179
tom at thesolar.biz
For: Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810  Grid tie sales 888-895-7847
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From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Dorsett
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 3:16 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] De-Sulphators. The last word?

If this is a fancy name for EDTA, perhaps 10 years ago I went through virtually all of the previous 15 years of Chemical Abstracts to see if there were ANY reference to its working. And while there were hundreds of scholarly abstracts on lead acid chemistry, there was only 1 that mentioned EDTA and that was a mixed review and attributed any benefit to the ion with which EDTA was combined as a salt. Like desulfators, there may be anecdotal hearsay, but little science.

Bill Dorsett
Sunwrights
Manhattan, KS

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]<mailto:[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]> On Behalf Of Jonathan Hill
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 12:33 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] De-Sulphators. The last word?

Try Thermoil deslphator additive. Has good reviews. We are selling it.

Jon Hill
Sierra Solar Systems

On May 28, 2012, at 7:17 PM, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems"<larry at starlightsolar.com<mailto:larry at starlightsolar.com>> wrote:
Dan,

I'm perplexed. Where was anything mentioned about de-sulphators? Where was anyone "slammed"? What in the world are you talking about? Perhaps you meant to reply to someone else's thread. BTW, I do not recommend a desulfator or pulser be installed on batteries.

I'll reiterate my points:
1. KC-120's from a certain production era fail and can be warranted.
2. Applying enough load will cause full current to flow from a PV array.
3. Sulfated batteries have high resistance causing a quick rise in voltage.

I welcome your response but please reply off list.

Respectfully yours,

Larry

On May 28, 2012, at 6:42 AM, <dan at foxfire-energy.com<mailto:dan at foxfire-energy.com>> <dan at foxfire-energy.com<mailto:dan at foxfire-energy.com>> wrote:

Seems I have a stalwart "Battery Specialist" in the neighborhood still convincing folks that de sulphators are the smartest thing since sliced bread (And slamming anyone who disagrees). In my experience, sparklers have little to no effect on battery longevity and in most cases add unlisted, hazardous and unnecessary wiring devices to a potentially hazardous environment. Is tar and feathering still an acceptable means of dispute resolution.. or am I totally missing something? tks db

Dan Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy Systems
(802)-483-2564
www.Foxfire-Energy.com<http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com/>
NABCEP #092907-44

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Troubleshooting Off-grid PV
From: "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems"
<larry at starlightsolar.com<mailto:larry at starlightsolar.com>>
Date: Sun, May 27, 2012 7:37 pm
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>

Hi Eric,

Check the dates on the KC-120 module label. If any were manufactured between January 1999 and December 2002, they have or will fail. We have been replacing these modules for over 8 years now. There was a defective solder joint during manufacture. Kyocera will still replace them under warranty even though they have no legal requirement to do so. They will ship you remanufactured 120's and pay for return shipping. Contact Kyocera about the procedure.

If the batteries are sulfated, they will not produce the load necessary to drive the current high. Capacity has nothing to do with it; internal resistance does. You can test the array by pulling the voltage down (turn on some big loads) at solar noon. This will force the controller into bulk and reveal the maximum current the array can produce. I think you have two problems here. With bad modules, you may not see much.

It is typical for a controller to transition to float very early in the charge cycle if the battery is sulfated. Look for a fast rise in voltage in the morning. This is an indicator of sulfated battery. A healthy battery will slowly climb in voltage.

Let me k now if you need more understanding about batteries, charging and why MOST of them never see old age. It's my speciality.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
(928) 342-9103


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