[RE-wrenches] intermittent battery problem

Tue Oct 11 20:08:59 PDT 2011

What is a common "toaster heating element" tester?

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Brian Teitelbaum
<bteitelbaum at aeesolar.com>wrote:

> I once saw a brand new L16 battery that would read the proper voltage (6.3
> VDC) and had good hydrometer readings, but the voltage would drop to zero
> when a load was applied. We were even able to do a dead short with a piece
> of #10 wire with only a faint spark visible upon connection, and then
> nothing.****
>
> ** **
>
> The manufacturer replaced it (after much haggling and the usual “that’s not
> possible”) so I never found out for sure what caused it, but I suspected a
> fracture in one of the internal bus bars. Could be what you are seeing here
> since the voltage change is about 2V.****
>
> ** **
>
> I second Mark’s suggestion to load test each battery****
>
> ** **
>
> Brian Teitelbaum****
>
> AEE Solar****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *
> mark at hurshtown.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2011 4:55 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
>
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] intermittent battery problem****
>
> ** **
>
> I would load test each battery individually using a common "toaster heating
> element" tester.****
>
> I'm betting on a bum battery in the string.****
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] intermittent battery problem
> From: Ron Young <solareagle at solareagle.com>
> Date: Tue, October 11, 2011 3:00 pm
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Wrenches,****
>
> I received some additional info from the customer this morning. They have
> asked me to hold off my visit until they get a few more clues but some of
> what they are telling me doesn't necessarily jive with a sulphated battery.
> Would appreciate comments - here's a quote from their email:****
>
> ** **
>
> *Hi Ron*****
>
> *Still having problems with system.  If the batteries are sulphated would
> the system return to full charge when you remove the load???  Checked our
> hydrometer against another and it is working fine. Batteries are all either
> in the green or on the line between green and blue this morning.  Display
> showed the batteries at 25.2 when we got up this morning. About 10:30 this
> morning---I had just tested all batteries with the hydrometer---the readings
> dropped to 23.8.  Retested batteries---they were in the green.   I turned
> off all loads----the readings returned to 25.2.  I turned on the
> Sunfrost---readings immediately dropped to 23.8.  I turned off the
> Sunfrost--- readings returned to 25.2.  I turned on all lights in the house
> and the readings remained at 25.2.  I turned the Sunfrost back on and the
> readings again stayed at 25.2.  The one other thing that happened in the
> meantime is that the sun came out and we started buying power from the solar
> system---.1-.3kw.  This all seems to be part of a pattern where as soon as
> we start buying power---whether from sun, wind or gen. the system returns to
> normal---But we are still suspicious of the Sunfrost because of our problems
> a few months back.  *****
>
> ** **
>
> Ron Young****
>
> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com****
>
> Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products****
>
> ** **
>
> On 2011-10-09, at 11:56 AM, Ron Young wrote:****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> As always, impressed and gratified by the number of thoughtful replies from
> Wrenches, thank you again! It looks like a hefty EQ is in order. I've
> successfully recovered badly sulphated batteries by putting them through
> multiple charge/EQ/discharge cycles on more than occasion. Will check out
> that Sunfrost as well. My mistake was believing that the hydrometer could
> tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth but apparently it
> takes an amp hour meter to keep it honest.****
>
> ** **
>
> Ron Young****
>
> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com****
>
> Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products****
>
> ** **
>
> On 2011-10-09, at 11:12 AM, Jonathan Hill wrote:****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> Ron-****
>
> We've seen this issue before,and it is almost always due to badly sulfated
> batteries. I'd try a LONG (8-12 hrs) EQ charge at 32 volts. We've done this
> with Hawkers and fixed the problem. I believe the Surrettes could handle
> this kind of charge, though you might contact Jamie Surrette.****
>
> ** **
>
> Jonathan Hill, senior system design engineer****
>
> *Sierra Solar Systems*****
>
> 563C Idaho Maryland Road****
>
> Grass Valley, CA 95945****
>
> Celebrating our 31st year in solar!****
>
> tech info and foreign orders:  (530) 273-6754 ****
>
> order line: (888) ON-SOLAR (US only)   FAX:  (530) 273-1760****
>
> e-mail:  <mailto:solarjon at sierrasolar.com <solarjon at sierrasolar.com>>****
>
> world wide web:  <http://www.sierrasolar.com>****
>
>
> Check out our 2 minute video at:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY-0UuabPEk<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY-0UuabPEk>
> ****
>
> Because of the high volume of e-mail to which I respond, please****
>
> leave _all_ of the previous messages (unless it's unbearable) in****
>
>   your reply so I can better remember your original message.****
>
> ** **
>
>
> <att6eade.png> ****
>
> ** **
>
> On Oct 8, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Ron Young wrote:****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> Thanks Bob but he has a tubular type hydrometer, not the pointer type.
> They're usually ok but I'll check it against mine when I go there which
> looks like a certainty.****
>
> ** **
>
> They EQ the batteries on a regular basis as per my instructions (they say)
> but will have to nail them down on that. The small 2500w generator worries
> me but they have 800w solar and a Whisper 100. The wind blows a lot.
> Inverter is a 3524 Outback.****
>
> ** **
>
> Ron****
>
> ** **
>
> On 2011-10-08, at 5:07 PM, bob ellison wrote:****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> I bet he has a cheap pointer type hydrometer, I have seen them be way off
> from reality.****
>
> My guess is that the gravity is low the voltage changes quickly, specific
> gravity changes slowly in a battery bank.****
>
> To fully charge a 24 volt bank you need to get it to 29 + volts and keep it
> there for several hours, depending on the battery bank size.****
>
> Charging it to 25.4 is nothing in the long run.****
>
> Give them a LONG full charge, what are the inverters? Does it ever get an
> EQ charge?****
>
>  ****
>
> Bob Ellison****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [
> mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> ] *On Behalf Of *Ron Young
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 08, 2011 2:02 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] intermittent battery problem****
>
>  ****
>
> Howdy Wrenches,****
>
>  ****
>
> One of my customers that lives 3 hours out in the back country is having an
> intermittent problem that I haven't encountered before. The batteries drop
> rapidly in voltage but hydrometer readings are in the green. Turning off the
> inverter and just using DC doesn't change anything. Meters on the Mate,
> Outback MX and Whisper controller are all the same so it's not a metering
> problem. On the way to bed the batteries were at 25.4, overnight with no
> loads they dropped to 22.9 then a short 15 min. charge with a generator
> brings the batteries back up and two hours later they are at 25.8. This
> scenario has occurred several times and then doesn't appear for a day or
> two.****
>
>  ****
>
> It doesn't seem to be sulfation as the batteries are reading good on the
> hydrometer every time. All cells check out. The inverter doesn't seem to be
> the problem. They have a Sunfrost on a separate DC circuit. It sounds like
> an intermittent circuit problem or electronics issue. Customer has checked
> and tightened all the connections he can get at but hasn't been inside the
> components. Would appreciate any suggestions or clues before I make the
> trip.****
>
>  ****
>
> Ron Young****
>
>  ****
>
> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com****
>
> Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
>
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-- 

Mac Lewis

*

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
*
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