[RE-wrenches] collector leaks (was Stiebel Eltron SHW Collector condensation issue)

Tue Jun 21 12:17:02 PDT 2011

We use Sunearth and Heliodyne flat plate collectors and have
not had any issues to date. After many issues with
Thermomax, & Sunda evacuated tube collectors we are very
happy with the Apricus ETC.

Dana Orzel

Great Solar Works, Inc

E - dana at solarwork.com

V - 970.626.5253

F - 970.626.4140

C - 970.209.4076

web - www.solarwork.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"

Do not ever believe anything, but seriously trust through
action.

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf
Of Randy Brooks
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:04 PM
To: Wrenches RE
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] collector leaks (was Stiebel
Eltron SHW Collector condensation issue)

Wrenches,

Several years ago I stopped recommending solar hot water
systems with pressurized collector loops, because of
problems with leaks and the need to test and replace glycol
solution every 3 to 5 years.  I now recommend drainback
systems from AET Solar (www.aetsolar.com) that use a
collector loop that is at or near atmospheric pressure, and
use water as a collector fluid.  This places a lot less
strain on the collector loop plumbing.  No problems since.

Good luck,

Randy Brooks

Brooks Solar, Inc.

Solar Power for People

140 Columbia View

Chelan, WA  98816

509-682-9646

Randy at BrooksSolar.com

www.BrooksSolar.com

On Jun 21, 2011, at 10:03 AM, Solar Energy Solutions wrote:

After 25 years of installing solar thermal panels, we have
come to the unfortunate conclusion that they all suck.  We
have had out of the box failures on all panels we have
used... and we are a very, very, very small company.   We
pressurize our solar thermal systems to 60-80 psi and let
them sit for 3 days.  If they hold that pressure... like a
ROCK, we complete the install.  What we find, as often as
not, is some little piddly leak somewhere in the loop.
Micro holes are not an uncommon encounter in panels.  So, we
then have to wrestle the solar thermal manufacturer into
first believing their "infallible" product is leaking , "out
of the box"  and then pay, out of OUR pocket the substantial
labor costs for its replacement.  So far as I can tell, all
solar thermal manufacturers warranty their panels for 10
years.  But, they only cover $100.oo in labor costs to
replace a defective product.  This does not begin to cover
our labor costs.  Consequently, I have started down the
road, (without success so far) of demanding solar thermal
manufactures to stand behind their products with a 5 year
$500.00 Labor warranty.  I have talked to a ton of solar
thermal manufacturers and  they all say the same thing.
"Our panels are the best.   Our failure rate is less then
2%.  We warranty them for 10 years, but we only pay $100.00
labor to replace those that are defective out of the box."
I can't even get the evacuated tube guys to stand behind
their product with a decent labor warranty!

Perhaps if more than one solar Bozo stands up and  says,
"Enough, we want a panel with a 5 year $500.00 labor
warranty".  A manufacturer might see the competitive edge of
being the first to do so.

Sincerely, 

Andrew Koyaanisqatsi

President

Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.

Since 1987,

Moving Portland and Beyond 

to an Environmentally Sustainable Future.

503-238-4502

www.solarenergyoregon.com
<http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/>  

"Better one's House too little one day

than too big all the Year after."

From: August Goers <august at luminalt.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Stiebel Eltron SHW Collector
condensation issue

Hi David -

Doesn't sound fun. We experienced a similar problem with a
10-collector system with Schuco Slim-Vs about 3 years ago.
The collectors had lots of condensation build up in them,
especially during the rainy season. Schuco stepped up and
gave us new 2nd generation collectors under warranty. The
new collectors do not have the condensation problem.
Apparently they redesigned the ventilation method. Generally
speaking I like the Schuco product although now we're
noticing a browning effect occurring near the in inlet and
outlet pipes on the absorber plate on Slim Vs installed a
few years ago. I have yet to deal with this issue.

It sounds like Stiebel is still working out their design.
You'll probably want to make sure that they have it fully
figured out before replacing the old collectors under
warranty otherwise you might have the same problem!

Good luck with it.

Best, August

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf
Of Dave Palumbo
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:58 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Stiebel Eltron SHW Collector
condensation issue

SHW Wrenches,

Our first experience with SHW flat plate collectors with a
condensation issue on the inside of the collectors' glass
cover. The system has two Stiebel Eltron Sol 25 collectors
(88" x 48" each) with a 82 gallon single heat exchanger
insulated tank in the basement of the home, with a SOM 6
solar loop controller. System installed fall of 2008.

Condensation problem was first noticed by homeowner late
last December. The collectors' manufacturer, Stiebel Eltron,
instructed us to watch and see if the problem resolved on
its own. It did not. Stiebel then instructed us to drill
small holes through the sides of the collectors near the top
for venting and more holes through the sides near the bottom
for draining the collector (see attached pdf for Stiebel's
venting advice). We did that in early May of this year. The
homeowner called us back with the same condensation issue. 

Stiebel then sent a bag of plastic insert venting plugs that
required us to drill out larger holes in the side of the
collectors and pop these vent plugs in. Plugs appear to be
an attempt at making more venting area while trying to keep
the rain out. After we installed these plugs we still have
the same issue, homeowner still sees condensation and poor
performance from the SHW system. 

The homeowner is now asking for new collectors under
warranty.  Have others experienced a similar SHW collector
problem? And have collector manufacturers stepped up with
new collectors?

Thanks,

David Palumbo

Independent Power LLC 

462 Solar Way Drive

Hyde Park, VT 05655

www.independentpowerllc.com
<http://www.independentpowerllc.com/>  

NABCEP Certified PV Installer

Vermont Solar Partner

23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 

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