[RE-wrenches] Xslent?

Sun Jan 9 19:25:23 PST 2011

--- On Fri, 1/7/11, Jamie Johnson <jjohnson at spefl.com>  wrote:

> Apparently they claim the inverter can create/produce
> VAR's by 
taking 1 watt of power from the grid at night
> or from the solar output 
during the day and turning it
> into approximately 9 VAR's to offset the 
customers
> charges for VAR usage from the Grid.  This is where
> the KVAh 
production on the graph before sunrise and
> after sunset comes from.

Reactive power can't be stored for later use.  In fact, the term "reactive power" is a bit of a misnomer in of itself.  Reactive power isn't "real" power, though it does involve volts and amps, as well as a phase angle between the two.  If the current is 90 degrees out of phase with the voltage .. you still have volts .. you still have amps .. but you have zero real watts consumed.

If you were to check into these inverters, odds are you'll find a capacitor in the output circuit, which in turn is a totally reactive (albeit "zero watt") load.  A reactive load won't register on any standard residential utility meter, nor is the residential customer billed for reactive power.

Bill Brooks said it perfectly.  This claim should have pegged the BS meter of every Wrench here.

Dan

--- On Fri, 1/7/11, Jamie Johnson <jjohnson at spefl.com> wrote:

From: Jamie Johnson <jjohnson at spefl.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Xslent?
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 4:02 PM

It's an interesting product for a niche market if it actually works as they say (Disclaimer:I am not claiming that it does), after speaking with an individual who I believe is the VP of Production for Apparent (use to work for EnPhase according to their website), he claims that the product is currently installed at the Google campus on a solar canopy for some of their EV chargers (can anyone verify this?)

They have several other beta installs as well, however the individual I spoke to said they were only installing small systems at beta test sites (where the Util co charges for VAR's using separate meters like for EV charging) for now.  No pricing has been set for the inverters, and they are not available for sale to installers yet.

Apparently they claim the inverter can create/produce VAR's by taking 1 watt of power from the grid at night or from the solar output during the day and turning it into approximately 9 VAR's to offset the customers charges for VAR usage from the Grid.  This is where the KVAh production on the graph before sunrise and after sunset comes from.

I still would need to see a third party head to head comparison test before I believed it.  Again niche market inverter for when the utility co charges for VAR's.

Jamie

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Xslent?
From: August Goers <august at luminalt.com>
Date: Fri, January 07, 2011 10:24 am
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>

Hi All -

Thanks for the helpful info! We did a little more research on our end and
I guess Apparent is the new brand name for the Xslent product. What
baffles me is the chart where they show that they're producing power
before and after sunrise and sunset:

http://www.apparent.com/products/mgi.html

The system must include batteries? Someone on their marketing team is
really going to town...

Best, August

-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:43 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Xslent?

HI Peter,

I agree with you that for now on residential it makes no sense.
However for commercial that might have to pay extra for PF issues, to have
the inverter adjust for this makes sense.
Its the reason they( inverter companies ) are doing it.
I"ve heard a better more complete reason of course from Bill Brooks, who
maybe can chime in.

sorry got away from me,

jay
peltz power
On Jan 6, 2011, at 2:34 PM, Peter Parrish wrote:

> I can't understand how any inverter WOULDN'T deliver its power with the
> voltage and current 100% IN PHASE.
>
> When the voltage and current are not 100% in-phase that represents
reactive
> power. Reactive power flows positive for a quarter of the AC cycle, then
> negative for a quarter of a cycle, then positive and then negative. The
net
> result over one AC cycle is ZERO power delivered to the load.
>
> So reactive power is worthless.
>
> Worse, it results in higher currents (and voltages) for the same amount
of
> in-phase power, putting additional stress on circuits.
>
> - Peter
>
>
> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
> California Solar Engineering, Inc.
> 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
> CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
> peter.parrish at calsolareng.com
> Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
>

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