[RE-wrenches] Advice needed on upsizing a battery & grid interactive inverter stack

Sun Aug 8 09:47:27 PDT 2010

I think you may have some thing there.  It a bit out of the box however,   At C/10 one Magnum can handle 1000 AH battery.  But the magnums can not grid tie, so the GT would be left to the Outbacks.  Your idea is intregueing however.  I think there is a out of box solution for this problem.  
darryl

--- On Sun, 8/8/10, bob <reellison at gmail.com> wrote:

From: bob <reellison at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Advice needed on upsizing a battery & grid interactive inverter stack
To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 9:39 AM

Can the Outbacks be mixed as ½ or whatever number be GT units and the rest be off grid so they can charge off a generator or better than that make the battery charging inverters Magnums, they give more charge for the bucks. They can feed a load panel on their own and charge the batteries off the generator when need be. I see no reason they could not be all hooked to the same battery bank but it better be huge (needless to say)!
Zantrex used to make a unit called “incharge” that I have used several times. It hooks to an alternator and gives you 3 stage charging. They worked quite well but I HATED setting them up. They have a set of magnetic switches in the potting that you had to activate to adjust, in sequence or go back to the start and do it again.
I absolutely hated the god forsaken things every time that I had to get near them, but if you can deal with the adjustments they worked well. Needless to say I would have liked knobs much better!

Later,
Bob Ellison

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mick Abraham
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 7:14 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Advice needed on upsizing a battery & grid interactive inverter stack

Thanks for the input, Daryl~ For now the prospect is considering sufficient power for a big energy hog home plus outbuildings. They'll probably get over that soon once the sticker shock sinks in. You asked, "how big a battery bank and how big a generator?" Mick replies: the whole hog system would need...guessing...about 500 kilowatt-hours of storage (~14,000 amp hours at 48 volts), 70kW worth of inverter/charger, plus a lot of PV. A 48 volt generator seems not best because that would involve over 1,000 amps coming off the machine. Maybe multiple DC generators would be worth consideration. I see why you are pointing in that direction, Daryl, because if not for the generator problem the Outback GT system can go large.

Finding a 48 volt generator line with proper end of charge regulation is another challenge. Can any List member provide feedback on the Canadian mfr, Mechron?

Much appreciated, 

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Voice: 970-731-4675

On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Darryl Thayer <daryl_solar at yahoo.com> wrote:

I have a functioning Outback system of 12 inverters, the original design was for 15 inverters. My system can sell up to 40 kW to the grid and I have seen pictures of systems up to 25 inverters.  How big a battery bank and how big a generator?  Realistically you may not want to charge over C/10    Have you considered a 48 volt generator?  

Daryl 

--- On Fri, 8/6/10, Mick Abraham <mick at abrahamsolar.com> wrote:

From: Mick Abraham <mick at abrahamsolar.com>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Advice needed on upsizing a battery & grid interactive inverter stack
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 6:17 PM

Yo, Mechanics~

A client is considering a "biggest ever for me" battery based power system. They will probably scale down their ambitions once the cost realities settle in but for now they've asked me to look for battery based inverter systems which can scale bigger than a triple stack of Xantrex XW6048 inverters. Your advice would be welcomed. 

* The system must be split phase 120/240, not 3 phase. 

* Outback seems "out" because the inverter group should handle backup battery recharge using grid or generator AC...and we also want to sell excess PV power to the grid.

* No cobbled together AC coupled systems would be considered without a convincing way to feather the end of charge on the battery when the grid is down...float & all. I don't want to go back to the days of clunky, coarse battery "end of charge" care. 

* Sunny Island/Sunny Boy is in contention but I'm not keen on having to stack in pairs to maintain the 120/240 three wire architecture. A single Sunny Island failure would take down two of the yellow boxes. What is the limit on stack-ability for Sunny Island?

* A battery sales rep suggested Satcon brand but I think that's bogus advice. Satcon is pure grid intertie only, right?

***********************************************

So...there is your challenge de la semaine (challenge of the week). Who builds an inverter system with Xantrex XW-like features only bigger...much bigger? OR: who could supply the "Mother of Sunny Island/Sunny Boy" system? Replies would be welcomed on the  List or off.

The Wrench List is the Bomb!

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Voice: 970-731-4675

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