<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>I think you may have some thing there. It a bit out of the box however, At C/10 one Magnum can handle 1000 AH battery. But the magnums can not grid tie, so the GT would be left to the Outbacks. Your idea is intregueing however. I think there is a out of box solution for this problem. </DIV>
<DIV>darryl<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 8/8/10, bob <I><reellison@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: bob <reellison@gmail.com><BR>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Advice needed on upsizing a battery & grid interactive inverter stack<BR>To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><BR>Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 9:39 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv493667652>
<STYLE>
<!--
#yiv493667652
_filtered #yiv493667652 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv493667652 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
#yiv493667652
#yiv493667652 p.yiv493667652MsoNormal, #yiv493667652 li.yiv493667652MsoNormal, #yiv493667652 div.yiv493667652MsoNormal
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"serif";}
#yiv493667652 a:link, #yiv493667652 span.yiv493667652MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv493667652 a:visited, #yiv493667652 span.yiv493667652MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv493667652 span.yiv493667652EmailStyle17
{font-family:"sans-serif";color:black;}
#yiv493667652 .yiv493667652MsoChpDefault
{}
_filtered #yiv493667652 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
#yiv493667652 div.yiv493667652WordSection1
{}
-->
</STYLE>
<DIV class=yiv493667652WordSection1>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Can the Outbacks be mixed as ½ or whatever number be GT units and the rest be off grid so they can charge off a generator or better than that make the battery charging inverters Magnums, they give more charge for the bucks. They can feed a load panel on their own and charge the batteries off the generator when need be. I see no reason they could not be all hooked to the same battery bank but it better be huge (needless to say)!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Zantrex used to make a unit called “incharge” that I have used several times. It hooks to an alternator and gives you 3 stage charging. They worked quite well but I HATED setting them up. They have a set of magnetic switches in the potting that you had to activate to adjust, in sequence or go back to the start and do it again.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">I absolutely hated the god forsaken things every time that I had to get near them, but if you can deal with the adjustments they worked well. Needless to say I would have liked knobs much better!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Later,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Bob Ellison</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT color=black size=4 face=Calibri><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 14pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Mick Abraham<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, August 07, 2010 7:14 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> RE-wrenches<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Advice needed on upsizing a battery & grid interactive inverter stack</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thanks for the input, Daryl~ For now the prospect is considering sufficient power for a big energy hog home plus outbuildings. They'll probably get over that soon once the sticker shock sinks in. You asked, "how big a battery bank and how big a generator?" Mick replies: the whole hog system would need...guessing...about 500 kilowatt-hours of storage (~14,000 amp hours at 48 volts), 70kW worth of inverter/charger, plus a lot of PV. A 48 volt generator seems not best because that would involve over 1,000 amps coming off the machine. Maybe multiple DC generators would be worth consideration. I see why you are pointing in that direction, Daryl, because if not for the generator problem the Outback GT system can go large.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Finding a 48 volt generator line with proper end of charge regulation is another challenge. Can any List member provide feedback on the Canadian mfr, Mechron?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Much appreciated, </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR clear=all>Mick Abraham, Proprietor<BR><A href="http://www.abrahamsolar.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.abrahamsolar.com</A><BR><BR>Voice: 970-731-4675<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Darryl Thayer <<A href="http://us.mc519.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=daryl_solar@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:daryl_solar@yahoo.com">daryl_solar@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<TABLE class=yiv493667652MsoNormalTable border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I have a functioning Outback system of 12 inverters, the original design was for 15 inverters. My system can sell up to 40 kW to the grid and I have seen pictures of systems up to 25 inverters. How big a battery bank and how big a generator? Realistically you may not want to charge over C/10 Have you considered a 48 volt generator? <BR><BR>Daryl <BR><BR>--- On <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Fri, 8/6/10, Mick Abraham <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"><<A href="http://us.mc519.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mick@abrahamsolar.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:mick@abrahamsolar.com">mick@abrahamsolar.com</A>></SPAN></I></SPAN></B> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>From: Mick Abraham <<A href="http://us.mc519.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mick@abrahamsolar.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:mick@abrahamsolar.com">mick@abrahamsolar.com</A>><BR>Subject: [RE-wrenches] Advice needed on upsizing a battery & grid interactive inverter stack<BR>To: "RE-wrenches" <<A href="http://us.mc519.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>><BR>Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 6:17 PM</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Yo, Mechanics~</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">A client is considering a "biggest ever for me" battery based power system. They will probably scale down their ambitions once the cost realities settle in but for now they've asked me to look for battery based inverter systems which can scale bigger than a triple stack of Xantrex XW6048 inverters. Your advice would be welcomed. </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">* The system must be split phase 120/240, not 3 phase. </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">* Outback seems "out" because the inverter group should handle backup battery recharge using grid or generator AC...and we also want to sell excess PV power to the grid.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">* No cobbled together AC coupled systems would be considered without a convincing way to feather the end of charge on the battery when the grid is down...float & all. I don't want to go back to the days of clunky, coarse battery "end of charge" care. </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">* Sunny Island/Sunny Boy is in contention but I'm not keen on having to stack in pairs to maintain the 120/240 three wire architecture. A single Sunny Island failure would take down two of the yellow boxes. What is the limit on stack-ability for Sunny Island?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">* A battery sales rep suggested Satcon brand but I think that's bogus advice. Satcon is pure grid intertie only, right?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">***********************************************</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">So...there is your challenge de la semaine (challenge of the week). Who builds an inverter system with Xantrex XW-like features only bigger...much bigger? OR: who could supply the "Mother of Sunny Island/Sunny Boy" system? Replies would be welcomed on the List or off.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The Wrench List is the Bomb!</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Mick Abraham, Proprietor<BR><A href="http://www.abrahamsolar.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.abrahamsolar.com</A><BR><BR>Voice: 970-731-4675</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-----Inline Attachment Follows-----</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________<BR>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<BR><BR>List Address: <A href="http://mc/compose?to=RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A><BR><BR>Options & settings:<BR><A href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</A><BR><BR>List-Archive: <A href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</A><BR><BR>List rules & etiquette:<BR><A href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</A><BR><BR>Check out participant bios:<BR><A
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.members.re-wrenches.org</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<BR><BR>List Address: <A href="http://us.mc519.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A><BR><BR>Options & settings:<BR><A href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</A><BR><BR>List-Archive: <A href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</A><BR><BR>List rules & etiquette:<BR><A href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</A><BR><BR>Check out participant bios:<BR><A href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.members.re-wrenches.org</A><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<P class=yiv493667652MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>_______________________________________________<BR>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<BR><BR>List Address: <A href="http://us.mc519.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" ymailto="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A><BR><BR>Options & settings:<BR><A href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target=_blank>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</A><BR><BR>List-Archive: <A href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target=_blank>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</A><BR><BR>List rules & etiquette:<BR>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<BR><BR>Check out participant bios:<BR>www.members.re-wrenches.org<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>