[RE-wrenches] attaching to roof decking - Foam Insulation Install

Tue Jul 20 08:54:25 PDT 2010

Sorry if this went through twice; the list scrubbed my attachment and
bounced the message.
--------------------------
I have an ancient (1999) spec sheet from ITWBuildex (contact me offlist for
a copy) for the #14 Roofgrip screws that we used to get from DPW to use on
their Easy Feet. It lists plywood thicknesses and associated pull-out
strengths (3/8" = 326 lbs, 1/2" = 436 lbs, 3/4" = 728 lbs. There are
probably a few fastener manufacturers that have a screw rated for pull-out
on plywood, it's just a matter of tracking that information down. Maybe a
good fastener store could help find some, like Harrison & Bonini in San
Francisco. Or keep trying to get an updated spec from DPW, or at least a
current product name they suppply if it is not Roofgrip. Try Jeff Randall (
randallj at directpower.com); you need to talk to one of their engineers to get
anything besides basic pricing and availability.

BTW, those screws are rated for plywood only, not OSB.

One last thought: now that you can find a pull-out number, you might want to
check the point loading per area with the foam on the roof. For example, if
each point load is 40 lbs and you use a post with a 4" x 4" base, then the
distributed point load is 2.5 psi. Doesn't sound like much, but could be
worth checking. A while back we had DPW make us some custom Easy Posts with
large bases to decrease that point load off the foam roof (solar thermal, a
little heavier, on the roof of a foam guy's house so he knew his product and
asked us for this specifically).

-Phil

Phil Boutelle

Project Engineer
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer TM
Real Goods Solar, Inc.
www.RealGoodsSolar.com <http://www.iesolar.com/>

On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Philip Boutelle <philboutelle at gmail.com>wrote:

> I have an ancient (1999) spec sheet from ITWBuildex (attached here, don't
> know if it will reach the entire list or not) for the #14 Roofgrip screws
> that we used to get from DPW to use on their Easy Feet. If you can't see the
> spec sheet, it lists plywood thicknesses and associated pull-out strengths
> (3/8" = 326 lbs, 1/2" = 436 lbs, 3/4" = 728 lbs. There are probably a few
> fastener manufacturers that have a screw rated for pull-out on plywood, it's
> just a matter of tracking that information down. Maybe a good fastener store
> could help find some, like Harrison & Bonini in San Francisco. Or keep
> trying to get an updated spec from DPW, or at least a current product name
> they suppply if it is not Roofgrip. Try Jeff Randall (
> randallj at directpower.com); you need to talk to one of their engineers to
> get anything besides basic pricing and availability.
>
> BTW, those screws are rated for plywood only, not OSB.
>
> One last thought: now that you can find a pull-out number, you might want
> to check the point loading per area with the foam on the roof. For example,
> if each point load is 40 lbs and you use a post with a 4" x 4" base, then
> the distributed point load is 2.5 psi. Doesn't sound like much, but could be
> worth checking. A while back we had DPW make us some custom Easy Posts with
> large bases to decrease that point load off the foam roof (solar thermal, a
> little heavier, on the roof of a foam guy's house so he knew his product and
> asked us for this specifically).
>
>
> -Phil
>
>
> Phil Boutelle
>
> Project Engineer
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer TM
> Real Goods Solar, Inc.
> www.RealGoodsSolar.com <http://www.iesolar.com/>
>
> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Nick Soleil <nicksoleilsolar at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>     It is important that the 'Easy Feet' or similar product is installed
>> on a roof that meets certain criteria, as per the manufacturer.  Other
>> comparable products require ~1/2" (15/32") plywood or particle roof
>> sheathing which is installed with a minimum specified nail pattern.  The
>> calculations would be affected by the spacing between the roof and the
>> modules, and the amount of air that can get under the modules.  If the
>> panels are flush to the roof, then there is little or no uplift.
>>
>> Nick Soleil
>> Project Manager
>> Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
>> PO Box 657
>> Petaluma, CA 94953
>> Cell: 707-321-2937
>> Office: 707-789-9537
>> Fax: 707-769-9037
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* benn kilburn <benn at daystarsolar.ca>
>> *To:* Wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> *Sent:* Mon, July 19, 2010 9:34:32 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] attaching to roof decking - Foam Insulation
>> Install
>>
>> after a few requests, i have not been getting any feedback from Direct
>> Power regarding pull out specs for their 'easy feet', which i need for my
>> engineer to be able to give me the go-ahead to use them.
>> does anyone care to comment on the fact that this mounting method only
>> attaches to the roof decking and not the rafters?
>>
>> i have always been under the impression that if you only attach your
>> racking to the roof decking, it (the decking) could 'rip right off the roof'
>> in that worst case scenario wind storm! but by anchoring to the trusses, the
>> whole roof structure would/should withstand the wind load.
>> or maybe i was just under the wrong impression and the spiel was that the
>> decking would not hold the screws and the screws would pull out!
>> so am i to understand that by using several (of the right size) screws at
>> each anchor point, the decking (if adequate) will be able to support an
>> array (even if tilted up to 60 deg)???
>>
>> cheers,
>> benn
>>
>> DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
>> benn at daystarsolar.ca
>> 780-906-7807
>> HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: frenergy at psln.com
>> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:32:23 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Foam Insulation Install
>>
>> I have also had a great experience using "Easy Feet" from Direct Power.
>> You use four of their screws per foot and Jeff Randall there can give you
>> pull out specs in roof decking, as I recall they match or exceed that of the
>> Lag/rafter combo.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> 4291 Nelson St.
>> Taylorsville, CA  95983
>> 530-284-7849/6544 fax
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* holtek at sbcglobal.net
>> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 19, 2010 12:24 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Foam Insulation Install
>>
>> Antony,
>> Right on!  The Eco-fasten will solve the issue - it's been pull-out tested
>> sans-rafter penetration. Have bought the eco-green fasteners from them, will
>> again.  As far as dealing with them - it's a great pleasure to be able to
>> *talk* to someone with good product knowledge that will take the time to
>> answer stupid questions.
>>
>> Holt E. Kelly
>> Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products
>> 500 Jewell Dr.
>> Waco TX. 76712
>> 254-751-9111
>> www.holteksolar.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Tersol <tony at appliedsolarenergy.com>
>> *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 19, 2010 11:33 AM
>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Foam Insulation Install
>>
>> Have you looked at EcoFasten mounting.  They have a mount that uses 8
>> screws per attachment, so can theoretically hold without going into the
>> rafters.  Then could use a large flashing over that to integrate with the
>> shingles.
>>
>> I think they're an offshoot of AlpenSnowguards in Vermont.  We started
>> working with Alpen to source S5 clamps several years ago, and have found
>> them great to work with.
>>
>> We're a West coast company - there were lots of other distributors closer,
>> but Alpen got and kept our business.  It's kind of funny - when I call them,
>> I feel like I'm talking with someone in one of those old hardware stores
>> with everything you need right there in bins, and when I call the other guys
>> it seems like someone in a sales office who never handles the product.
>>
>> The EcoFasten crew is similarly helpful, and they have some well thought
>> out products.  The name I have in my rollodex is Chris Sterns, at
>> 877-859-3947.
>>
>> http://www.ecofastensolar.com/our-products/eco-fasten
>>
>>  <http://www.ecofastensolar.com/our-products/eco-fasten>Their website is
>> pretty comprehensive, and includes leak and load tests and building code
>> info.  Other cool mounting products too.
>> --
>> Antony Tersol
>> Solex / Applied Solar Energy
>> 831-333-1919
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>> For residential install with the spray foam insulation
>>
>> Underside of deck has 12"+ of foam.....no way to accurately locate rafter
>> there.....hammer and ear also out of the question...........don't think
>> any
>> of the stud finders will work....been told that peeling back shingles to
>> locate rafter is only accurate way.......would like to avoid that if
>> possible..........any suggestions?
>>
>> Holt E. Kelly
>> Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products
>> 500 Jewell Dr.
>> Waco TX. 76712
>> 254-751-9111
>> www.holteksolar.com
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
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