[RE-wrenches] kwh meters

toddcory at finestplanet.com toddcory at finestplanet.com
Thu Jan 28 16:04:13 PST 2010


Here is a repost of this information from 20067

Todd


Ok, I called Jake and he forwardedme to Brent Carper (253-395-6818) who works in the Puget Sound Energymetering department. I had a long conversation with him about how tometer battery based, grid tied inverters. 

The form 12s meter (recommended by Outback) is designed for 120/208 3phase so it is expecting to see 120º of phase difference between thetwo legs rather than 180º,and being analog meters use the same core for both meter coils, thephysics of this would suggest even an analog meter will not accuratelyread net power produced (but it will probably be only 1 or 2% off). 

The best way to accomplish this is with a digital, form 12s meter. Now,not any old form 12s meter will work (sigh). These meters come in threevarieties: 

1- The most common default configuration is cumulative read. This will NOTwork. 
2- The other two configurations are net register or 
3- dual register


Both of these (2 & 3 above) will work, although net register willdo the calculations for you and dual register (sometimes called dualfunction) will leave you with separate buy and sell totals that willneed to be manually added together at the end of each billing cycle.

As far as I now know this is accurate information, but I have severalmeters coming that I am going to test out to confirm the above details.Hopefully Outback will annotate this on their "green tag meter" pdf.

[http://www.outbackpower.com/pdfs_general/Form%2012S%20Green-Tag%20meter.pdf] http://www.outbackpower.com/pdfs_general/Form%2012S%20Green-Tag%20meter.pdf

Todd



Ian Woofenden, Home Power wrote:
  
Hi Randy and Todd,  
  
Andy has actually changed jobs, and the new contact at PSE is:  
  
  Jake Wade  [mailto:jake.wade at pse.com] <jake.wade at pse.com>    
Green Power Program Implementer    
425-462-3459    
    
Best,  
  
Ian  
  
  Todd,    
    
The latest contact I have for Puget Sound Energy, RE program, is:    
    
Andy Hemstreet    
Program Implementer,    
Renewables and Green Power    
Puget Sound Energy    
Office - 425 456-2633    
[mailto:andrew.hemstreet at pse.com] andrew.hemstreet at pse.com    
    
Randy Brooks    
Brooks Solar, Inc.    
Solar Power for People    
140 Columbia View    
Chelan, WA  98816    
509-682-9646    
[mailto:info at BrooksSolar.com] info at BrooksSolar.com    
[http://www.brookssolar.com/] www.BrooksSolar.com    
    
On Jun 30, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Serviceswrote:    
    
    
Kelly and others interested in this,      
      
Yes form 12s meters and sockets have 5 terminals.      
      
I am going to do some more testing on this next week, but it appears      
only analog meters will work with the Outback directions. If you wantto      
use a digital meter, it needs to be configured to "net register". This      
should be clarified on the Outback green tag metering diagram.      
      
Who is your contact at PSE? I'd like to ask them what kind of"tweaking"      
they do to get the digital meters to work correctly.      
      
Todd      
      
      
Randy Brooks wrote:      
      
        
Todd,        
        
One thing the OutBack diagram does not mention is that the meter base        
requires an additional neutral socket for the 5th meter leg.  If you        
meter base does not have one, that may be the problem.  You can get a        
5th socket adapter for your meter base from the meter supplier too.        
        
take care,        
        
Randy Brooks        
Brooks Solar, Inc.        
Solar Power for People        
140 Columbia View        
Chelan, WA  98816        
509-682-9646        
[mailto:info at BrooksSolar.com] info at BrooksSolar.com        


On Thursday, January 28, 2010 12:57pm, gary at arp-solar.com said:


 I am using an analog GE kwh meter on an outback system with battery backup to a protected loads panel.  The AC in to the inverter is attached to the bottom of one leg of the meter and the AC out of the inverter is connected to the top of the other leg. This should give me an accurate record of just the production from the system. The idea is that the AC IN that will power the protected loads panel at night will come in the bottom of one leg and turn the meter backwards then exit through the top of the meter going forward thus cancelling those kwh. out. I have a neutral hooked to the meter because I am using it to record 120V but I am not getting accurate readings with this configuration. Any suggestions on metering in this case? I need a utility grade kwh meter.  
 
Gary Easton
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal 
APPALACHIAN RENEWABLE POWER LTD.
Stewart, Ohio 
740-277-8498

“I'd put my money on solar energy… I hope we don't have to wait 'til oil and coal run out before we tackle that.”

—Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, March 1931


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